Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Seanu Reaves]

Here is how I see windhelm. IT IS A CITY I DO NOT CARE ABOUT. simple as that. what happens in windhelm stays in windhelm because no one else seems to even talk about it until the Dunmer get someone they love on the throne of the city. I hardly spend any time there, so racism/segregation/nords being mean to the Dunmer based on race in windhelm? useless information to me.

If you don't care why get mad? and what are you on aboot?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

Why should I care when Khajit are suffering the same all over skyrim? Racism/Xenophobia is not unique to the rebels.

IF I should care about the Dunmer, then I should care about the Khajit and hate all nords for being racist.

 

[Seanu Reaves]

Why should I care when Khajit are suffering the same all over skyrim? Racism/Xenophobia is not unique to the rebels
IF I should care about the Dunmer, then I should care about the Khajit and hate all nords for being racist.

Now now. Don't go Kanye West on us. Disliking racism is a noble thing don't you think? And it isn't unique to the Stormcloaks. The Thalmor for example. But it is so blatantly prevalent in the Stormcloaks that it becomes an issue in the debate if you compare them to the Imperials which at least try for equality. And please calm down it is unbecoming.

 

[Anouck]

Why should I care when Khajit are suffering the same all over skyrim? Racism/Xenophobia is not unique to the rebels.

IF I should care about the Dunmer, then I should care about the Khajit and hate all nords for being racist.

YES you should care about the Khajiit. Racism, regardless of the race, is bad. If you say racism is only bad when it is commited against Dunmer, you are being racist. AAARG
NO you should not hate all Nords for being racist. If you hate an entire race for something only a specific group does, THEN YOU ARE BEING RACIST. Please, just get it. >.<
Stop putting people in little categories. Not all Nords are racist. And discriminating Khajiit is just as bad as discriminating Dunmer..

.. Really, it is not that difficult..

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

Why should I care when Khajit are suffering the same all over skyrim? Racism/Xenophobia is not unique to the rebels.

IF I should care about the Dunmer, then I should care about the Khajit and hate all nords for being racist.

YES you should care about the Khajiit. Racism, regardless of the race, is bad. If you say racism is only bad when it is commited against Dunmer, you are being racist. AAARG
NO you should not hate all Nords for being racist. If you hate an entire race for something only a specific group does, THEN YOU ARE BEING RACIST. Please, just get it. >.<
Stop putting people in little categories. Not all Nords are racist. And discriminating Khajiit is just as bad as discriminating Dunmer..

.. Really, it is not that difficult..

Racism is bad, you don't have to care for the in-game racism. It's a game. But I hope you don't think so in real life? "Those people live where I don't come anyway, so I don't care.."

 

[Stigweard Ruadhan]

I flippin' hate the High Elves, to be honest...

 

[Rimfaxe96]

I flippin' hate the High Elves, to be honest...

The Thalmor made them hate me. But the rest of them who don't want humanity as their personal slaves somehow trigger my masochism button.

 

[Pronged Pickle]

Allow me to explain as to why I support the Empire, and why I believe it is the best option for Skyrim (Keep in mind that I will be repeating what others before me have said):

1. The Empire provides resources to Skyrim - It is widely known that Skyrim has little to boast about regarding their farming. Very few farms in Skyrim are successful, due to the climate, with exceptions being Rorikstead, and I believe a couple farms throughout the Rift and Eastmarch. Skyrim, as a whole, cannot hope to live off that little food. In fact, that's barely enough to feed the remaining husk that is Winterhold. And not just that, but Skyrim doesn't contain large amounts of valuable mining material. They can boast of silver, and the occasional conundrum and, even rarer, ebony, but the majority of minerals found in Skyrim is iron ore. As said, that's not enough for armor creation. The Empire provides all of these things, and has been for many, many years. Breaking off from this would be foolish and counterproductive.

2. The Empire is the morally-good option - In the end, depending on the amount of lore, and from who's perspective it's being told from, the Empire is generally good morally, by medieval standards (there are still torture rooms ). They do not discriminate against race, abilities, or preference, but rather welcome such factors into their ranks with little question. This differs from the generally hated Thalmor, and the commonly-criticized-Stormcloaks, who are both seen as arrogant, narrow-minded, and just flat-out racist. Hadvar and Ralof's instincts are the embodiment of this. With Hadvar: "Hear that? Stormcloaks. Maybe we can reason with them"/proposing the idea of a truce with the Stormcloaks until the dragons are dealt with; Ralof - "Can't wait to kill another Imperial!"/"It's the Imperials! Take cover!"

3. The Empire is the best option for a defeated Dominion - Honestly, anyone who believes that Skyrim alone can defeat the whole of the Aldmeri Dominion in a war is, to say the least, naive. Steel Warhammers and armor made out of cloth and chainmail will not protect Stormcloak soldiers against magic, better trained warriors, the better equipment said warriors have (including weapons and armor), or the general vast amount of legions that outnumber their own. Ulfric plans to attack the Thalmor immediately after liberating Skyrim (and, as brought up by DrunkenMage, they have no way to get there in full force anyway), which is insanely idiotic, and even if he played it defensively, they would eventually be invaded (with minimal to moderate difficulty). However, that is assuming the following: a. the Dominion defeats the Empire. b. They don't all starve to death. c. Hammerfell has no interest in attacking (Again, as DrunkenMage said, it would be likely, according to lore, for Hammerfell to attempt to invade Skyrim; however, I am unsure of how that war would play out).

4. Short-term, and long-term, the Empire is most beneficial - As previously stated, an independent Skyrim would not last long. The fact that you now have headstrong warriors thumping their chests over reasonable, caring, and intelligent Jarls (excluding Black-Briar and Siddgeir; I actually prefer their Stormcloak counterparts) doesn't make it better.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I dislike the racism in Windhelm. I just do not see the point in complaining about it when I just make the characters, and give THEM a life , in Skyrim. Racism is all over Tamriel. Just like the Dunmer in Morrowind who hated just about anything they considered "imperialized" (including those of their own race who been in the empire for any length of time). Never truly liked the Dunmer as a race then, still at least distrust them now, just like the Altmer who are portrayed as arrogant and think they are better than everyone else.

so again, why should the Stormcloaks be unique in their racism/xenophobia when that is pretty common in this universe?

 

[Pronged Pickle]

I dislike the racism in Windhelm. I just do not see the point in complaining about it when I just make the characters, and give THEM a life , in Skyrim. Racism is all over Tamriel. Just like the Dunmer in Morrowind who hated just about anything they considered "imperialized" (including those of their own race who been in the empire for any length of time). Never truly liked the Dunmer as a race then, still at least distrust them now, just like the Altmer who are portrayed as arrogant and think they are better than everyone else.

so again, why should the Stormcloaks be unique in their racism/xenophobia when that is pretty common in this universe?

Negative habits amongst the majority of society do not make them good qualities. Knowing that, just because much of Tamriel is racist, does not mean that it's appropriate. In fact, it'd probably be best if your Dragonborn wasn't racist, to stand out as a type of beacon amongst these dark time times of Tamriel (assuming your character is run as the Dragonborn) that are filled with violence and distrust.

While you can indeed RP a character, generally speaking, a faction becomes unattractive after displaying racism and segregation to many.

And again, as others have said, you shouldn't judge a group of people based on some you've seen. There are many Altmer who despise the Thalmor. And with Dunmer, it ranges. You can have Dunmer assassins, who are generally untrustworthy and unfriendly, or you can have a Dunmer farmer, who does hard work, and does what he does out of selflessness. Either way, I wouldn't say the majority of Dunmer are assassins or farmers.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I guess people hate me because I do not impart modern day values on a fantasy, medieval universe. That is fine, but I see the game as it is, a game based on a fantasy world where our world's values hold little sway in any action of any individual or race.

I honestly dislike both the Stormcloaks and the Empire and wish that I could take their leaders and throw them off the top of the throat of the world.

 

[Pronged Pickle]

I guess people hate me because I do not impart modern day values on a fantasy, medieval universe. That is fine, but I see the game as it is, a game based on a fantasy world where our world's values hold little sway in any action of any individual or race.

No one "hates" you for your choices, and perhaps you are right in bringing up the medieval ideology topic, I am just criticizing your decision, as you have the right to criticize mine. Hence the topic of this thread: Debate.

While rare, there are still those, like Brunwulf, who look for a stop to racism and the segregation to the Dark Elves. So the value isn't completely modern day

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I guess people hate me because I do not impart modern day values on a fantasy, medieval universe. That is fine, but I see the game as it is, a game based on a fantasy world where our world's values hold little sway in any action of any individual or race.

No one "hates" you for your choices, and perhaps you are right in bringing up the medieval ideology topic, I am just criticizing your decision, as you have the right to criticize mine. Hence the topic of this thread: Debate.

While rare, there are still those, like Brunwulf, who look for a stop to racism and the segregation to the Dark Elves. So the value isn't completely modern day

and I applaud that, but when you factor time and money, I fail to see who that helps other than the dunmer who might not help anyone.

still, as I said in the edit, I would rather wipe both the Empire and Stormcloaks from the face of Skyrim for perpetuating this stupid "Civil War."

 

[Ivory]

First day back after a few months. This thread still going strong I see. Neat.

I guess people hate me because I do not impart modern day values on a fantasy, medieval universe. That is fine, but I see the game as it is, a game based on a fantasy world where our world's values hold little sway in any action of any individual or race.

No one "hates" you for your choices, and perhaps you are right in bringing up the medieval ideology topic, I am just criticizing your decision, as you have the right to criticize mine. Hence the topic of this thread: Debate.

While rare, there are still those, like Brunwulf, who look for a stop to racism and the segregation to the Dark Elves. So the value isn't completely modern day

I support your view but there is nothing Modern Day about wanting equality. These issues are what make the game all the better, without these topics to relate to and discuss, skyrim wouldn't have these kinda discussions and that's what makes Skyrim and the Elder scrolls in general that more successful.

To the guy who "doesn't care". I ask the same thing everyone else has, why argue it then? If you didn't care you wouldn't argue the point. Also excuse this post if its answered by the time it posts, I'm using a phone.


Also hi all, missed ya.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

First day back after a few months. This thread still going strong I see. Neat.

I guess people hate me because I do not impart modern day values on a fantasy, medieval universe. That is fine, but I see the game as it is, a game based on a fantasy world where our world's values hold little sway in any action of any individual or race.

No one "hates" you for your choices, and perhaps you are right in bringing up the medieval ideology topic, I am just criticizing your decision, as you have the right to criticize mine. Hence the topic of this thread: Debate.

While rare, there are still those, like Brunwulf, who look for a stop to racism and the segregation to the Dark Elves. So the value isn't completely modern day

I support your view but there is nothing Modern Day about wanting equality. These issues are what make the game all the better, without these topics to relate to and discuss, skyrim wouldn't have these kinda discussions and that's what makes Skyrim and the Elder scrolls in general that more successful.

To the guy who "doesn't care". I ask the same thing everyone else has, why argue it then? If you didn't care you wouldn't argue the point. Also excuse this post if its answered by the time it posts, I'm using a phone.


Also hi all, missed ya.

because people have problems realizing that their views really do not mean much in the grand scheme of things?

 

[Ivory]

because people have problems realizing that their views really do not mean much in the grand scheme of things?

Elaborate. This is far too vague to make sense of.

 

[NENALATA]

HA - HA - HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm over here ROFLMAO!!!

This pl*ps is getting HILARIOUS!!!


Mrs Anouck ~ "The Voice of Reason" ~ *Sniff* *Sniff* "But I know that can't be how you really feel" ~ Mrs AKA herself.

Spends maybe Oh... 4 or 5 pages on reasons why NO ONE is allowed to discriminate or express their feelings towards a particular race of people...

Spends prob another 7 to 8 posts talking firmly against racism and how NO ONE has the right to hate on a certain group of people...


Then some random guy comes along, posts this:

I flippin' hate the High Elves, to be honest...

AND NOT ONLY ANOUCK but two of these other bleeding hearts agrees with it.


AND YOU fl*ffERS THINK WE'RE EVIL?

She actually had the mean-spirited audacity to agree that she HATES the High Elves, singling us out... That's Awesome! Wasn't this the exact. same. thing. I had said about you before? Something about you not being sincere about being the Voice of Reason or some such thing?

Man, I love it when I can actually prove that I was right all along about something or someone.

pl*ps at least the Thalmor are honest AND ALL OF US understands what must be done and why it must be done.

It ain't pretty and the Imperials of Tamriel won't agree with it... some races understand this however. But they were all fine with it before when the Altmer in Summerset were meeting our maker (Dominion in the 2nd era, Oblivion Crises, take your pick). Paid taxes to an Empire who abandoned us, bowed down to an Emperor(s) who didn't love us or understand us... didn't want to get to know us... That was just was fine. It was politically correct to spew your hateful acid all over the Dominion and High Elves because they deserved it for being better cultured, more intelligent, masters of magic, masters of Diplomacy, cities were beautiful... but the only thing man saw was the need for power and instead of learning ways to better himself, rebelled against his betters. Even after earning his independence from us and the Elves left man alone. The violence has never ceased, never ends.

Forget about other ways to solve our problems with the Elves who deserve our admiration and respect, let's just knife them in the back and then we'll go around pretending to be their victims who are now the Victors and we're all so much better than and more intelligent that the Altmer. Heh ~ Not anymore. Not anymore. Level playing field now and the truth is being seen for what it is.


For some people ~ Winning is everything. The High Elves are not out to win we want CHANGE. We're not out to MURDER PEOPLE we want to UNDO the damage that was done by the Malicious Sycophants who setup their illegitimate Empire, drenching the continent in blood and ruin - on the ruins of Altmer civilization and murdered/enslaved lots of Atlmer/Dominion women and children just because they could. Just because man wasn't satisfied with who he was. With what he had.


That's the score and it's time to pay the piper. All I've got to say. Have a Nice Day!

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

because people have problems realizing that their views really do not mean much in the grand scheme of things?

Elaborate. This is far too vague to make sense of.

there is nothing more to debate. things in this thread (I have been here for a long time lurking) have been discussed here and elsewhere. I see nothing new here and I see nothing that warrants any more debate. What we decide for our games does not mean a thing for the guy sitting next to us. if people get that through their thick skulls, then there might be room on threads for more meaningful threads.

sorry for the tirade, I just hate that threads like this keep popping up every forum that is about Skyrim.

 

[Ivory]

because people have problems realizing that their views really do not mean much in the grand scheme of things?

Elaborate. This is far too vague to make sense of.

there is nothing more to debate. things in this thread (I have been here for a long time lurking) have been discussed here and elsewhere. I see nothing new here and I see nothing that warrants any more debate. What we decide for our games does not mean a thing for the guy sitting next to us. if people get that through their thick skulls, then there might be room on threads for more meaningful threads.

sorry for the tirade, I just hate that threads like this keep popping up every forum that is about Skyrim.

With all due respect. The majority of us understand this, and have accepted we cannot force our opinions on one another. However facts are facts, and lore is what we all go by. Most of us discuss and open our minds to one another's opinions, people have switched sides and/or become lore masters. (Example DrunkenMage)

Secondly if you don't like this topic, don't click it. This isnt a thread that bleeds all over the forum. Sure another topic appears from time to time but it fades with time. I see countless threads of other topics besides this one. Click one of those.

This thread is stickied for a reason. Ya don't gotta be involved in this topic y'know.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I will just leave things as this for now:

Who else here would rather kill everyone on both sides (The soldiers and officers, not the citizens) and start the politics from scratch in Skyrim?

I would love to be able to FUS RO DAH Ulfric, Galmar, General T and Rikke off the top of the throat of the world myself.