Why do so many people hate squishy mages?

[Aren_Direfrost]

In my opinion the squishy (or pure) mage is the most fun to play out of all of the builds I have played so far. Sure it is more challenging but that's what makes it more fun. Being squishy forces you to think tactically and approach battle thinking three steps ahead as Opposed to running in with a one or two handed weapon and lopping everyone to peices clad in heavy armor so you have little fear of death. I think the squishy mage is the most underrated build in skyrim. Thoughts?


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[Nighthiker77]

I haven't spent a lot of time with "pure" mages but I have played quite a bit with unarmored squishy hybrids and it definitely makes it more fun.

 

[Alexstrasza]

Mostly because the first 15 levels is incredibly hard, especially on Master or Legendary difficulty.

 

[Wetigos]

While i like squishy classes, i dont like mage in skyrim much.

Somewhat for the reason Alextrasza mentioned, except i dont find it hard, just...annoying?
Having far too low mana to really cast any spells for long enough to kill enemies, its always *shoot* *run from enemy and wait for mana to return* *shoot* repeat.

Thats just not the type of gameplay i find fun to play.
You can ofcourse offset this by using potions, which i did, but i found myself spamming them so much that i ran out before some enemies even died (like the mage duel guy)
This is on legendary difficulty, so i'm sure the gameplay is more fun on a lower one where your mana will last longer.

You can stick it out till you've leveled a bit and gained some more mana/good equipment, but i'd prefer having a fun time through the entire playthrough, instead of the fun beginning at level 10+, just my 2 cents.

 

[KritikalPT]

One of the biggest problem with a pure mage is that you'll always be mana starving the first few levels. The beginning spells are also pretty garbage; they deal pathetic amounts of damage, they eat through mana like crazy and you have to be close to enemies to even start to hurt them. All those three combined equal to a very dead mage.
Once you start getting some actual decent spells (by decent I mean spells that you can safely cast at a distance), then you can bring some pain to the enemy.

I had a playthrough going on with a pure mage, and every single level up I would increase Magicka, because Health is for chumps. Of course, that also meant that I could be one-shotted by pretty much anything in the game. It was fun having to figure out a way to kill everything without eating an arrow or being impaled by a sword. Or, you know, just abusing the hell out of the Impact trait and stun-locking enemies. But here's the thing about them: while at around levels 20 to 30 you feel like a badass, killing anything that stood in front of you, above that and you'll see that it's going to take a long, long time to kill anything. Spells don't have a great scaling in terms of damage, and if you're playing vanilla, then good luck trying to kill a dragon, or anything, really. Further, you don't have a great deal of spell selection, and you'll quickly start relying way too much on summons/followers to tank AND kill enemies, and lastly, the Master level Destruction spells just ain't that good because of how long the animation is. That, and the damage is negligible at higher levels.

 

[Parselmagic]

I really like playing a mage. Typically though I'll ignore the destruction tree, and rely on illusion and summons to dominate at the back of the crowd. It makes you feel like an evil conqueror or something.

 

[Annageckos]

I have played a pure mage and had a lot of fun with it. In fact I need to get back to that character. It was different from my normal style in some ways, similar in others. I enjoy a stealth based style and that came in handy for playing a mage.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Mostly because the first 15 levels is incredibly hard, especially on Master or Legendary difficulty.

This is true that's why I usually play expert until I get the arhmages robes usually around level 10-12 with the benefits of the gear you get from the college it's a lot easier then I turn it up to master


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

While i like squishy classes, i dont like mage in skyrim much.

Somewhat for the reason Alextrasza mentioned, except i dont find it hard, just...annoying?
Having far too low mana to really cast any spells for long enough to kill enemies, its always *shoot* *run from enemy and wait for mana to return* *shoot* repeat.

Thats just not the type of gameplay i find fun to play.
You can ofcourse offset this by using potions, which i did, but i found myself spamming them so much that i ran out before some enemies even died (like the mage duel guy)
This is on legendary difficulty, so i'm sure the gameplay is more fun on a lower one where your mana will last longer.

You can stick it out till you've leveled a bit and gained some more mana/good equipment, but i'd prefer having a fun time through the entire playthrough, instead of the fun beginning at level 10+, just my 2 cents.

the high elves +50 macgicka at the start helps a lot with that and their high born power which I usually use for a tough spot, also I keep a dagger on hand just in case



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

One of the biggest problem with a pure mage is that you'll always be mana starving the first few levels. The beginning spells are also pretty garbage; they deal pathetic amounts of damage, they eat through mana like crazy and you have to be close to enemies to even start to hurt them. All those three combined equal to a very dead mage.
Once you start getting some actual decent spells (by decent I mean spells that you can safely cast at a distance), then you can bring some pain to the enemy.

I had a playthrough going on with a pure mage, and every single level up I would increase Magicka, because Health is for chumps. Of course, that also meant that I could be one-shotted by pretty much anything in the game. It was fun having to figure out a way to kill everything without eating an arrow or being impaled by a sword. Or, you know, just abusing the hell out of the Impact trait and stun-locking enemies. But here's the thing about them: while at around levels 20 to 30 you feel like a badass, killing anything that stood in front of you, above that and you'll see that it's going to take a long, long time to kill anything. Spells don't have a great scaling in terms of damage, and if you're playing vanilla, then good luck trying to kill a dragon, or anything, really. Further, you don't have a great deal of spell selection, and you'll quickly start relying way too much on summons/followers to tank AND kill enemies, and lastly, the Master level Destruction spells just ain't that good because of how long the animation is. That, and the damage is negligible at higher levels.

I usually play high elves for squishy mages they have less of a problem with magicka restrictions and their extra magicka allows you to cast apprentice level destruction spells almost from the start which you can pick up from farengar for pretty cheap fire bolt kills most things effectively and for dragons I conjure a flame antronoch and and use lightning bolt, it takes a while but works I focus on getting those three spells above anything else at first and also I play on expert til i get the equipment I need or reach level 20 which ever comes first



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[thomasblaine]

Flames is crazy powerful and a real lifesaver early on when you know how to use it. (Spam-tapping to set enemies on fire several times over and watching the stacking DoT effect drain their lives like water.) Especially if you combine it with the Aspect Of Terror Illusion perk, making it the most damaging and cost-effective offensive spell in the game.

Otherwise, be prepared. Both magical armor and summoning spells last long enough for you to cast them well before combat, waiting a bit to regenerate Magick and then attacking with two huge advantages without taxing yourself too much. Illusion spells are either powerful (bordering on broken) stealth effects or even more powerful (most certainly broken) mind control that in some cases even have extensive areas of effect, letting you turn an entire mob of enemies into a circus at higher levels, but even the lowest Calm spell will completely neutralize most single enemies before you find something more advanced.

And the summoning spells themselves can take the heat off you for a few moments, protect you effectively through entire battles, and utterly wreck your enemies without you having to lift a finger, depending on the level.

And that's not even counting Enchantment.

Playing a mage is very, very different from playing a warrior, and much more tactical. It's not hard, though, not even at low levels, as long as you play it smart and use all your resources. The worst thing you can do is approach each battle expecting to mindlessly burn and freeze and shock everything into submission.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Flames is crazy powerful and a real lifesaver early on when you know how to use it. (Spam-tapping to set enemies on fire several times over and watching the stacking DoT effect drain their lives like water.) Especially if you combine it with the Aspect Of Terror Illusion perk, making it the most damaging and cost-effective offensive spell in the game.

Otherwise, be prepared. Both magical armor and summoning spells last long enough for you to cast them well before combat, waiting a bit and then attacking with two huge advantages without taxing your effective Magick too much. Illusion spells are either powerful (bordering on broken) stealth effects or even more powerful (most certainly broken) mind control that in some cases even have extensive areas of effect, letting you turn an entire mob of enemies into a circus at higher levels.

And the summoning spells themselves can take the heat off you for a few moments, protect you effectively through entire battles, and utterly wreck your enemies without you having to lift a finger, depending on the level.

And that's not even counting Enchantment.

Playing a mage is very, very different from playing a warrior, and much more tactical. It's not hard, though, not even at low levels, as long as you play it smart and use all your resources. The worst thing you can do is approach each battle expecting to have unlimited magick allowing you to mindlessly burn and freeze and shock everything into submission.

Very well said sir



Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[KritikalPT]

Especially if you combine it with the Aspect Of Terror Illusion perk, making it the most damaging and cost-effective offensive spell in the game.

People who use the version 1.2 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch mod don't get that benefit.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

People who use the version 1.2 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch mod don't get that benefit.

Even without aspect of terror glitching using flames in bursts really does stack the burning damage


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[KritikalPT]

People who use the version 1.2 of the Unofficial Skyrim Patch mod don't get that benefit.

Even without aspect of terror glitching using flames in bursts really does stack the burning damage


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

Which is only good early on. After you have some levels under your belt that damage is nothing, especially in higher difficulty levels where enemies have a ridiculous amount of HP.

 

[Aren_Direfrost]

Which is only good early on. After you have some levels under your belt that damage is nothing, especially in higher difficulty levels where enemies have a ridiculous amount of HP.

And that's where expert and master spells come in by then as a squishy mage you should definitely have more than flames in your arsenal lol


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

 

[KritikalPT]

Which is only good early on. After you have some levels under your belt that damage is nothing, especially in higher difficulty levels where enemies have a ridiculous amount of HP.

And that's where expert and master spells come in by then as a squishy mage you should definitely have more than flames in your arsenal lol


Aren Direfrost... Witchhunter

Master level spells take way too long to cast. Even with -flesh spells, you will die really quickly, and having a very angry beast or bandit running after you while you do your little dance to summon hellfire won't work. The best thing is not to use them, or at least that's what I found, but the damage from spells don't scale all that well, and you'll find spamming a ton just to kill 1 enemy, let alone half a dozen.

 

[Torok]

People hate the Mage because it forces them to think. People would rather want "I'm gonna run in and swing this big sword wildly until things die." Than "A flesh spell to protect me, summon creature for help, pelt them from afar with ranged spells, get a cloak spell and healing spell ready in case they come too close." That is how you must prepare and think sometimes, especially if you play at hard difficulty.

 

[Mr Forz]

I like mages. But I could never get to have a fully squishy mage build, too stuck up on spells if you don't play it hybrid and getting to master nearly every school of magic will leave you with a TON of spells which can be a chore to deal with when in combat. If it wasn't for mods that made Destruction magic interesting I'd avoid that school at all costs and still be a conjured-armsmaster.

Spare me the whole "It forces players to think" because swinging a greatsword in heavy armor or spamming Ice Storm + Fireball with some cost reduction and the stagger perk is the exact same, Farengar.

 

[thomasblaine]

People hate the Mage because it forces them to think. People would rather want "I'm gonna run in and swing this big sword wildly until things die." Than "A flesh spell to protect me, summon creature for help, pelt them from afar with ranged spells, get a cloak spell and healing spell ready in case they come too close." That is how you must prepare and think sometimes, especially if you play at hard difficulty.

Exactly. Using a much more complicated, less intuitive system of effects, magic relies more on player skill and patience than simple hack'n slash gameplay, which only really requires a sense of timing, if even that.

Spare me the whole "It forces players to think" because swinging a greatsword in heavy armor or spamming Ice Storm + Fireball with some cost reduction and the stagger perk is the exact same, Farengar.

Well, yes. And as we seem to agree, that's the most boring and frustrating way you can possibly play a mage. As soon as you start using the other schools strategically, it actually becomes interesting.

Destruction in general is pretty tiresome, yes. I do love the Rune spells though, and Flames as a crutch early on.