LotusEater
I brake for blue butterflies
If he is such a monster, that can only go out and try to destroy or dominate mortals... Wouldn't finding personal peace mean more world peace?
His spirit guide says: NO
If he is such a monster, that can only go out and try to destroy or dominate mortals... Wouldn't finding personal peace mean more world peace?
Without Alduin I just don't see Paarthy as the same level of threat material. Sure he could rally the dragons, but the game has shown that only Alduin can bring them back from the dead thus far. And the Ebony Warrior, for all intents and purposes, is a rival of the dragonborn and thus rivals Paarthy. It would be a bloody war, because they're dragons, but Paarthy is losing his window. The second great war is the only opportunity I can see for him.
And a certain amount of multiple factors is required to win wars. I'm well aware of that. However it certainly helps, and doesn't detract from my point. Unless he makes a move during the Second Great War, he has nothing to gain by waiting. Since we are making all these great war references, the dragons closely resemble the Nazi dogma of quality over quantity, while the humans resemble more the dogma of industrial capacity and quantity over quality.
If he is such a monster, that can only go out and try to destroy or dominate mortals... Wouldn't finding personal peace mean more world peace?
The Greybeards know Paarthunax exists, he is their "grandmaster" as the shining example of the Way of the Voice. Which is of peace. It sounds like because he is pursuing peace in the way he recognizes as the best way opposed to what you want him to be which is the monster he was before.
No more so than you assuming that he is going to be evil.Without Alduin I just don't see Paarthy as the same level of threat material. Sure he could rally the dragons, but the game has shown that only Alduin can bring them back from the dead thus far. And the Ebony Warrior, for all intents and purposes, is a rival of the dragonborn and thus rivals Paarthy. It would be a bloody war, because they're dragons, but Paarthy is losing his window. The second great war is the only opportunity I can see for him.
And a certain amount of multiple factors is required to win wars. I'm well aware of that. However it certainly helps, and doesn't detract from my point. Unless he makes a move during the Second Great War, he has nothing to gain by waiting. Since we are making all these great war references, the dragons closely resemble the Nazi dogma of quality over quantity, while the humans resemble more the dogma of industrial capacity and quantity over quality.
That's a whole lot of assumptions there. Just saying. If this were the really real I would not trust the fate of mankind to any of the assumptions you presented. You keep bringing the Ebony Warrior into it like he is just gonna suddenly decide to be a dragonslayer even though there is no indication whatsoever that this is the case.
No more so than you assuming that he is going to be evil.Without Alduin I just don't see Paarthy as the same level of threat material. Sure he could rally the dragons, but the game has shown that only Alduin can bring them back from the dead thus far. And the Ebony Warrior, for all intents and purposes, is a rival of the dragonborn and thus rivals Paarthy. It would be a bloody war, because they're dragons, but Paarthy is losing his window. The second great war is the only opportunity I can see for him.
And a certain amount of multiple factors is required to win wars. I'm well aware of that. However it certainly helps, and doesn't detract from my point. Unless he makes a move during the Second Great War, he has nothing to gain by waiting. Since we are making all these great war references, the dragons closely resemble the Nazi dogma of quality over quantity, while the humans resemble more the dogma of industrial capacity and quantity over quality.
That's a whole lot of assumptions there. Just saying. If this were the really real I would not trust the fate of mankind to any of the assumptions you presented. You keep bringing the Ebony Warrior into it like he is just gonna suddenly decide to be a dragonslayer even though there is no indication whatsoever that this is the case.
First of all I didn't say that it would pass him up, I just said that it would improve which makes his overall position weaker. And it's not just technology, it's mortal civilization in general. And the dwarves never shared their tech, so it was never a factor to begin with. Not to mention that magic is only going to get stronger. Just look at crossbows.No more so than you assuming that he is going to be evil.That's a whole lot of assumptions there. Just saying. If this were the really real I would not trust the fate of mankind to any of the assumptions you presented. You keep bringing the Ebony Warrior into it like he is just gonna suddenly decide to be a dragonslayer even though there is no indication whatsoever that this is the case.
Not true. In fact your assumption that somehow technology is going to pass up Paarth is completely flawed since all indications in Skyrim are that since the Dwemer have disappeared, technonlogy has taken a drastic step back. What is currently taking place in Skyrim to make you believe this trend will reverse? I mean, look at that janky rig that traps the dragon at Dragonreach. The Dwemer would laugh at such primitive measures.
As far as assuming he's evil... false again. He's proven he's evil by his actions in the past. Highly, highly evil given his crimes against humanity. He's not good now, just self serving and scared pl***less that his brother is about to return and settle the score, which I suppose is less evil (somewhat) big picture however could morph into full blown, dominating evil at any moment. If he's proven nothing else, he's proven that he will flip flop to save his own scales. Guess I wouldn't be willing to wait around until what he perceives to be the better bet to arrive on the scene. Like I always say: Keep you friends close and keep your enemies closer... unless they are proven war criminals in which case exterminate. War criminals only stop being war criminals when they don't have a current gig and Paarth is a war criminal. Sorry.
First of all I didn't say that it would pass him up, I just said that it would improve which makes his overall position weaker. And it's not just technology, it's mortal civilization in general. And the dwarves never shared their tech, so it was never a factor to begin with. Not to mention that magic is only going to get stronger. Just look at crossbows.No more so than you assuming that he is going to be evil.
Not true. In fact your assumption that somehow technology is going to pass up Paarth is completely flawed since all indications in Skyrim are that since the Dwemer have disappeared, technonlogy has taken a drastic step back. What is currently taking place in Skyrim to make you believe this trend will reverse? I mean, look at that janky rig that traps the dragon at Dragonreach. The Dwemer would laugh at such primitive measures.
As far as assuming he's evil... false again. He's proven he's evil by his actions in the past. Highly, highly evil given his crimes against humanity. He's not good now, just self serving and scared pl***less that his brother is about to return and settle the score, which I suppose is less evil (somewhat) big picture however could morph into full blown, dominating evil at any moment. If he's proven nothing else, he's proven that he will flip flop to save his own scales. Guess I wouldn't be willing to wait around until what he perceives to be the better bet to arrive on the scene. Like I always say: Keep you friends close and keep your enemies closer... unless they are proven war criminals in which case exterminate. War criminals only stop being war criminals when they don't have a current gig and Paarth is a war criminal. Sorry.
And I never disputed he was evil in the past, but he hasn't given any indication that he hasn't reformed. Just look at Spier from the Numenburg Trials.
He did more than flop. The dragons were WINNING THE WAR. Without him and by extension, without Dragonrend, THERE WOULDN'T BE a human civilization on Tamriel.
I understand completely. The most compelling point for me however is that the dragons would have won the war if not for him, which even if he was only trying to usurp his brother, is not a small gesture.First of all I didn't say that it would pass him up, I just said that it would improve which makes his overall position weaker. And it's not just technology, it's mortal civilization in general. And the dwarves never shared their tech, so it was never a factor to begin with. Not to mention that magic is only going to get stronger. Just look at crossbows.Not true. In fact your assumption that somehow technology is going to pass up Paarth is completely flawed since all indications in Skyrim are that since the Dwemer have disappeared, technonlogy has taken a drastic step back. What is currently taking place in Skyrim to make you believe this trend will reverse? I mean, look at that janky rig that traps the dragon at Dragonreach. The Dwemer would laugh at such primitive measures.
As far as assuming he's evil... false again. He's proven he's evil by his actions in the past. Highly, highly evil given his crimes against humanity. He's not good now, just self serving and scared pl***less that his brother is about to return and settle the score, which I suppose is less evil (somewhat) big picture however could morph into full blown, dominating evil at any moment. If he's proven nothing else, he's proven that he will flip flop to save his own scales. Guess I wouldn't be willing to wait around until what he perceives to be the better bet to arrive on the scene. Like I always say: Keep you friends close and keep your enemies closer... unless they are proven war criminals in which case exterminate. War criminals only stop being war criminals when they don't have a current gig and Paarth is a war criminal. Sorry.
And I never disputed he was evil in the past, but he hasn't given any indication that he hasn't reformed. Just look at Spier from the Numenburg Trials.
He did more than flop. The dragons were WINNING THE WAR. Without him and by extension, without Dragonrend, THERE WOULDN'T BE a human civilization on Tamriel.
Ya. We could dicker back and forth all day but the bottom line is Paarth is one of the most compelling NPC's I've ever encountered in a game. I want to like him but I just can't trust him.
I understand completely. The most compelling point for me however is that the dragons would have won the war if not for him, which even if he was only trying to usurp his brother, is not a small gesture.First of all I didn't say that it would pass him up, I just said that it would improve which makes his overall position weaker. And it's not just technology, it's mortal civilization in general. And the dwarves never shared their tech, so it was never a factor to begin with. Not to mention that magic is only going to get stronger. Just look at crossbows.
And I never disputed he was evil in the past, but he hasn't given any indication that he hasn't reformed. Just look at Spier from the Numenburg Trials.
He did more than flop. The dragons were WINNING THE WAR. Without him and by extension, without Dragonrend, THERE WOULDN'T BE a human civilization on Tamriel.
Ya. We could dicker back and forth all day but the bottom line is Paarth is one of the most compelling NPC's I've ever encountered in a game. I want to like him but I just can't trust him.
Hey I hate to interrupt the measuring competition,
Measuring? And if a dragon can rehabilitate a vampire can, which goes back to his initial point about vampires, which goes back to the main purpose of the thread. Even though I am not optimistic enough to believe a vampire can logically rehabilitate and generally agree with Lotus on most all of his points.But look at the thread name, and put it in a proper place, this is about vampires or Dawnguard.
Hell you could even talk about the moral greyness of the Dawnguard or Vigilants
You aren't mentioning vampires at all until just now, talk about vampires and dawnguard specifically. Mentioning the sympathetic vampire in Skyrim, instead of droning on about a possible sympathetic dragon would be more in line.
Since Mage mentioned Grey you could also work around that. Hell you could even talk about the moral greyness of the Dawnguard or Vigilants. (resident vampire hunters in this case)
Basically the dragon points is used and dried up. Find the original dragon thread if you wish to continue please.