Thrall Thread : Living with the dead

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- Level 36, going to thrall dremoras. They become unthrallable past it, and I really want to miss the opportunity.
Seems there had been some misinterpretation regarding one of my previous posts.

To sum it up, Dremoras are just like vampires: past certain levels you'll find it hard to encounter Vampire Nightstalkers, right? Well, once you reach said level, Dremoras Markynaz (lvl 36) will be replaced by Dremoras Valynaz (lvl 46). Atronach forge, Azure Star, Labyrinthian; no matter where, they just stop showing up, Althought Mehrune's Shrine is an exception since the Dremoras found inside are radiant.
-If I've ever found a Markynaz inside MD's shine? Well.... just once and It was a Warrior Dremora, out of many thousands of visits...

According to uesp you'll start encountering Markynaz past PC lvl 36, but from my personal experience, lvl 36 is the last chance for my characters to enthrall them (excluding the possibility of a MD's shrine spawn).
keep in mind I'm writting this all from the perspective of a high-level character looking for a good Dremora, so if none of what is written applies to you... -I don't know. consider it ...a warning? Some npc level caps work differently from PC to PS3, so It's up to me to figure these out before I miss more Thralls.
Such are the dangers of necromancy, I guess.
 
-Beep Beep- It's Double posting time! This question is rather specific, so I might be Indirectly directing it to you, Adam.

Got quite disapointed when I found out that Karita is meant to disappear after we reach High Hrothgar. That costed me a Bounty!
I'm about to start the DB questline and I'd really like to know if there are any vanishing assasination targets worth of being mentioned.(Will I be able to perm BBQ astrid? Please say yes!) By pointing which ones have been scripted to dissapear you can prevent me from losing anchors, and more importantly, from the chore of loading & reloading save files!
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
- Level 36, going to thrall dremoras. They become unthrallable past it, and I really want to miss the opportunity.
Seems there had been some misinterpretation regarding one of my previous posts.

To sum it up, Dremoras are just like vampires: past certain levels you'll find it hard to encounter Vampire Nightstalkers, right? Well, once you reach said level, Dremoras Markynaz (lvl 36) will be replaced by Dremoras Valynaz (lvl 46). Atronach forge, Azure Star, Labyrinthian; no matter where, they just stop showing up, Althought Mehrune's Shrine is an exception since the Dremoras found inside are radiant.
-If I've ever found a Markynaz inside MD's shine? Well.... just once and It was a Warrior Dremora, out of many thousands of visits...

According to uesp you'll start encountering Markynaz past PC lvl 36, but from my personal experience, lvl 36 is the last chance for my characters to enthrall them (excluding the possibility of a MD's shrine spawn).

Well, it's the blind leading the naked right now so... I leveled up to 40, went and did Azura's quest, and the Dremora there were Markynaz. Not only were they Markynaz, they were enthrallable too. I have them right now, as we speak. 'Course, the problem here, is that I'm still able to enthrall bodies past 40-- I don't know what I've done; but, apparently, my game is more bugged out than anyone else's.

I don't want to argue with information that has been compiled by other gamers, but there's something missing from their results. I only wish I knew what it was.

EDIT:

Well, in any case, I'm expanding my search. I stumbled on this post here, and hope to figure something out.


Hopefully, somebody somewhere has come across this before. I'll post any findings that are relevant here. It'll save anyone else the trouble of locating an answer.
 
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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
This is exciting! I don't have a bugged out game! All I had to do was try to enthrall a guard, and I would have connected the dots. Hooray! ... I'm still perfectly perplexed by this conflict in Dremora experiences, but I'm still quite happy I solved one thing.

EDIT: No, I don't think I actually want to...
 
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Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
-Beep Beep- It's Double posting time! This question is rather specific, so I might be Indirectly directing it to you, Adam.

Got quite disapointed when I found out that Karita is meant to disappear after we reach High Hrothgar. That costed me a Bounty!
I'm about to start the DB questline and I'd really like to know if there are any vanishing assasination targets worth of being mentioned.(Will I be able to perm BBQ astrid? Please say yes!) By pointing which ones have been scripted to dissapear you can prevent me from losing anchors, and more importantly, from the chore of loading & reloading save files!

Taking over the DB provides a few new adventures and an interesting new base of operations but the only worthwhile Dead Thrall (imho)to come out of it is Commander Maro(needs anchor)

Typically I do not use or keep thralls which are level 20 or lower .

My Burnt Astrid (level 31 like my character) was practically useless because she would repeat her scripted death after thralling (xbox)
 
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Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
House, yea its strange and confusing but i think some Npc's Cap earlier levels due to their class ( Elemental mage Drelas was 28 I think). Bashnag 28 also.

I tested thralling various Named thralls b4 their cap (Cap meaning you can no longer thrall them) Then i exited their dungeon,lvl'd past 40 and rethralled.

For me they were still thrallable at 41 providing I had thralled them b4 cap.

Said method doesn't work still for the likes of Ulfric, Estormo, Lu'ah - there are Npc's that just have a max thrall lvl and are ones that if you miss, can be saddening.

Quest tied Npc's are strange tho, Orchendor is thrallable after 40, yet Champion of Boethia isn't.

Definately for some cases you can thrall them, then keep them for ages - Malkoran, Bashnag, Orchendor, Drelas, Malyn Varen all 40+ now.

Went thrall hunting at 25 - best time to do it cause things start really changing.
 

Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
Can you not Thrall any of the DB? Arnbjorn? Nazir? Festus Krex?
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
House, yea its strange and confusing but i think some Npc's Cap earlier levels due to their class ( Elemental mage Drelas was 28 I think). Bashnag 28 also.

I tested thralling various Named thralls b4 their cap (Cap meaning you can no longer thrall them) Then i exited their dungeon,lvl'd past 40 and rethralled.

For me they were still thrallable at 41 providing I had thralled them b4 cap.

Said method doesn't work still for the likes of Ulfric, Estormo, Lu'ah - there are Npc's that just have a max thrall lvl and are ones that if you miss, can be saddening.

Quest tied Npc's are strange tho, Orchendor is thrallable after 40, yet Champion of Boethia isn't.

Definately for some cases you can thrall them, then keep them for ages - Malkoran, Bashnag, Orchendor, Drelas, Malyn Varen all 40+ now.

Went thrall hunting at 25 - best time to do it cause things start really changing.

I, apparently, misunderstood the definition of max level/cap and level locking entirely. All this time I figured: Level to 40, kill someone, and enthrall them, then, passing 41 would disallow enthralling of said characters. The idea of 'level locking', I assumed, was: By meeting someone early on, their level would be locked at your level. There's definitely more to it when taking into consideration radiant leveling NPCs.

Never did I think by killing someone early on would allow [them] to be enthralled in the succeeding levels... That's just bizarre...

The nice part is I'm learning a lot, and hopefully, in the next playthrough I'll be able to capitalize on it... And not unintentionally screw up.
 

Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind
Recently found Ardwen, which was a nice surprise when leaving Whiterun.

She was alright, Lightning Cloak, Chain lightning, powerstance dual cast aswell, whooped Eola's backside in combat. Had to kill her myself and thrall her, sadly replacing my Ascendant Conjuror (who ice stormed) but didn't actually conjure.

Hard to actually find conjurors who are better than apprentices in battle... yet to see any that conjure frost/storm atro's - pretty sure they are bugged at later levels, hence losing the ability to conjure.

Had a great encounter with Sild the Warlock, whilst he was laughing at me for falling into his cage trap, I got Eola to unlock the expert door, Sild was walking around non hostile, we even conversed...Then he realized after his dialogue ended that I had escaped somehow so he began bombarding me with firebolts... Killed him, but going to try him around 39 since he should be powered up by then ! Fun fun fun!
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
Recently found Ardwen, which was a nice surprise when leaving Whiterun.

She was alright, Lightning Cloak, Chain lightning, powerstance dual cast aswell, whooped Eola's backside in combat. Had to kill her myself and thrall her, sadly replacing my Ascendant Conjuror (who ice stormed) but didn't actually conjure.

Hard to actually find conjurors who are better than apprentices in battle... yet to see any that conjure frost/storm atro's - pretty sure they are bugged at later levels, hence losing the ability to conjure.

Had a great encounter with Sild the Warlock, whilst he was laughing at me for falling into his cage trap, I got Eola to unlock the expert door, Sild was walking around non hostile, we even conversed...Then he realized after his dialogue ended that I had escaped somehow so he began bombarding me with firebolts... Killed him, but going to try him around 39 since he should be powered up by then ! Fun fun fun!
Both Ardwen and Sild are considered elemental mages - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Fire_Mage
Their levels are set radiantly when you encounter them and do not change afterward.
MAKE A SAVE and test them by using Dread Zombie spell.
If they resist DZ but can be thralled , you may deduct that they are electromancer /pyromancer level 40.
If they succumb to DZ but not to Revenant spell , they are either mage(21) or wizard(30)
 

Adam Warlock

Well-Known Member
Recently found Ardwen, which was a nice surprise when leaving Whiterun.

She was alright, Lightning Cloak, Chain lightning, powerstance dual cast aswell, whooped Eola's backside in combat. Had to kill her myself and thrall her, sadly replacing my Ascendant Conjuror (who ice stormed) but didn't actually conjure.

Hard to actually find conjurors who are better than apprentices in battle... yet to see any that conjure frost/storm atro's - pretty sure they are bugged at later levels, hence losing the ability to conjure.

Had a great encounter with Sild the Warlock, whilst he was laughing at me for falling into his cage trap, I got Eola to unlock the expert door, Sild was walking around non hostile, we even conversed...Then he realized after his dialogue ended that I had escaped somehow so he began bombarding me with firebolts... Killed him, but going to try him around 39 since he should be powered up by then ! Fun fun fun!
Both Ardwen and Sild are considered elemental mages - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Fire_Mage
Their levels are set radiantly when you encounter them and do not change afterward.
MAKE A SAVE and test them by using Dread Zombie spell.
If they resist DZ but can be thralled , you may deduct that they are electromancer /pyromancer level 40.
If they succumb to DZ but not to Revenant spell , they are either mage(21) or wizard(30)
As for conjuring thralls , the best may be Forsworn mages who will use Frost Atronach after death.
Thalmor wizards are quite fond of their Storm Atronachs.
As a dead thrall, Eola will call out her Flame Atronach.

What happens with NPC Conjurers , Necromancers , and Vampires after becoming Death Thralls is that they do not revive the dead as they did before.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
A neat tip I picked up out of curiosity the other day: I found out (maybe others already knew) you can have alternate sets of gear for a thrall. I was playing with that mage from Valthume (trying to spawn a good pair of robes) when he spawned Peerless Restoration robes. I kept the robes and later put them back on his person when he spawned in Peerless Destruction robes. Afterwards I killed him and swapped back and forth between them... Really handy thing, I think. I'm sure it works for thralls with armour too.

I mean, we're necromancers! We should be able to diversify our thrall loadouts!

Hard to actually find conjurors who are better than apprentices in battle... yet to see any that conjure frost/storm atro's - pretty sure they are bugged at later levels, hence losing the ability to conjure.

My new Khajiit is 25 and everyone spawns Flame Atronachs... It's bloody crazy sometimes. I ran into that cave by that giant camp (yea, sorry I don't remember what it's called) and, including my own, there were five of them.... FIVE! Needless to say I was scared and ran the hell out of there.

EDIT: Another thing: With my higher understanding of level locking and radiant spawns concepts, I believe Dremora are among those that are enthrallable beyond any level as long as you enthrall a Markynaz or lower. I get the feeling this is what Deathless was trying to state earlier-- but, it wasn't very clear to me at the time.
 
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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends

Is there anything really special about Lu'ah?

Also, I find it curious Estormo falls into a similar category of thralls. He's not very difficult to fight at all. Well, maybe I've just been too high a level whenever I come up to that timeline...
 

Harkin

Necromatic Mastermind

Is there anything really special about Lu'ah?

Also, I find it curious Estormo falls into a similar category of thralls. He's not very difficult to fight at all. Well, maybe I've just been too high a level whenever I come up to that timeline...

At lvl 40, Lu'ah is a very powerful ice mage, dualcast & powercast ice storm, supposed to be able to reanimate, not yet tested this.

Also Estormo, later levels is v strong, flame cloak yet casts lightning, dual elements, up the difficulty and he will 1 hit kill you. Also conjures flame atro.
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
At lvl 40, Lu'ah is a very powerful ice mage, dualcast & powercast ice storm, supposed to be able to reanimate, not yet tested this.

All right, thanks. I just ran through Ansilvund at 28 (to test a theory) and enthralled her. I'm quite glad to hear she is enthrallable up to 40. I was worried she was one of the NPCs that caps at 34. Seems there are only two, Tulius and Ulfric, (I'm seeing a connection) that I can count, that have that behavior.

When I go through Ansilvund again at level 40, I'll post some info on her performance. I'm sure others have already done this, but I like writing stuff down...

Also Estormo, later levels is v strong, flame cloak yet casts lightning, dual elements, up the difficulty and he will 1 hit kill you. Also conjures flame atro.

hmmm... That is rather unique. The knowledge of Flame Atronach is always a bonus too.

---

So, in other news, I finally enthralled Drelas! Holy got damn! Finally! Not including the prep across two characters, (since I screwed the first one up) centering in on his enthrall cap took a lot of time for me... (It was just because of the process, really. I often do things the hard way, for reasons I am not yet certain of...) Anyways, if any necromancer out there wants Drelas, he is available up to 28 as Harkin mentioned earlier.

I settled on ice being his element. We'll see how he performs later on. I just can't emphasize how happy I am about this. I will forever treasure my Drelas!
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Melee Class - Can be enthralled @ any level

Ghunzul of Cracked Tusk Keep
Hajvarr Iron-Hand of White River Watch
Old Orc - random encounter
Rigel Strong-Arm of Pinewatch
Chief Yamarz - access @ level 10
Legate Rikke - access @ Battle for Solitude
Galmar Stone-Fist - access @ Battle for Windhelm



Melee Class
- Must be enthralled @ or before level 40


Melee Class - Cannot be enthralled beyond level 40

Cicero - access @ The Cure for Madness
Champion of Boethiah - access @ level 30



Melee Class
- Cannot be enthralled beyond level 34

Ulfric Stormcloak - access @ Battle for Windhelm
General Tullius - access @ Battle for Solitude



Melee Class - Cannot be enthralled beyond level 33

Fjola of Mistwatch


Mage Class
- Can be enthralled @ any level

Anise of Anise's Cabin
Arondil of Yngvild
Sebastian Lort - access @ level 10
Silus Vesuius - access @ level 20
Kornalus of Harmugstahl
Daynas Valen of Folgunthur
Wyndelius Gatharian of Shroud Hearth Barrow



Mage Class
- Must be enthralled @ or before level 40

Orchendor - access @ level 10, 12
Malyn Varen - access @ The Black Star
Malkoran - access @ level 12



Mage Class - Cannot be enthralled beyond level 40

Estormo - access @ The Staff of Magnus
Ancano - access @ The Eye of Magnus
Lu'ah Al-Skaven of Ansilvund



Mage Class - Must be enthralled @ or before level 28


Drelas of Drelas' Cottage
Bashnag of Southfringe Sanctum



Those who resist Dead Thrall at any level:

Logrulf the Willful
Brother Verulus
All of Boethiah's Cultists, including the sacrifice
Gavras Pinius



Those who are removed from the game unconditionally:


Salma of Ironbind Barrow
Eisa of Frostmere Crypt
Agna of Hillgrund's Tomb
Orthorn of Fellglow Keep



Misc generic bodies:


Forsworn Briarhearts (?)
Volkihar Master Vampires (never)
Arch Necromancers (?)
Mercenaries (37)
hostile race-named NPCs, e.g. Wood Elf (37)
race-named NPCs that can be taunted (37)



NPCs unknown/unconfirmed:


Kematu of Swindler's Den (under 40)
Savos Aren of College of Winterhold (under 40)
Haldyn of Japhet's Folly
Hamelyn of Honningbrew Meadery
Atar of Karthwasten
....and more


Note: There will be a few of these that I will be able to check out at a later date. I just don't feel like it right now.

-------------------

Is anyone able to confirm Sild's and Ardwen's status? I cannot quite check it out for myself. I just want to be sure before I write them in.

Also, if those knowledgable are able to add or correct anything, please do. I have not seen anything with this structure to aid in one's path of Necromancy.

Thank you.

Oh, and also, I will be adding in a section for Dremora and the like, especially regarding the various kinds and behaviors when I can prepare the data.
 
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HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
There has been an interesting turn of events. I'll have to add a section especially for people that cannot be enthralled-- or reanimated at all. It seems Bethesda never intended us to invoke the powers of necromancy upon Gunjar. He'll resist Dead Thrall at level 15 (sorry, I can't cast it any lower on this file) and Ritual Stone doesn't even recognize him as a dead body... Sooo... I'll put that up when I'm around to it.

For the first time I tried using masterpug's Grave Robbing technique. To my surprise it worked (although, without all the steps he lists. Instead of waiting 24 hours, I reloaded the auto-save when entering the building. Then I just traveled back to Markarth from Riften and Weylin and Margaret became semi-permanent/permanent... (I put a note on every body anyway)). I had my doubts, but now, I'm the proud owner of Weylin indefinitely... And before ya'll ask, yes, everytime he dies he gasps, "I die for my people!" It's wonderful. I was planning on keeping Margaret as well. The method worked, but sadly, I was more inclined to try to keep Vigilant Tyranus. This latter task has become a little odd, though, I believe it can be explained.

Tyranus appears to be affected by GR... GR? ... Sure... But, as soon as you leave the city he'll disappear. I get the feeling, despite GR working, the game does a second check for his body. Anywho, I'm going to keep him around until I finish up on Molag's request. I'll try again, and hopefully Tyranus will become semi-permanent thereafter.

Anything else of note? hmm...

Well, Bashnag is a fearsome warlock. His Frost Atronach is fetching, and so are his dual casts. He appears to have a much larger magicka pool than Drelas, which saddens me... but, I guess that's okay... i do prefer Drelas' AI in general though. Where Bashnag will either solely use magic or a weapon, Drelas will expend his mana and then use his weapon. 'Course, I haven't given Bashnag or Drelas a whole lot of time under the microscope...

From the experience I had with the conjuring Dremora, I get the feeling Bashnag's neglectful behavior towards the atronach staff I gave him, (and taking into considering the various line-ups of staves some NPCs need) is a result of the same AI characteristic. I haven't gone so far, but I'm assuming he'll need to cast two atronachs in the same battle-- against the same opponent, before using it as the Dremora does.

Now that I'm back in the saddle with a vampiric necromage, it will be good fun to try to collect dead dead bodies again. I'm going to start with Lucky, move on to Silverdrift Lair, and then see where necromancy takes me. Hoorah!
 

HouseHosted

Mundus 9-5, Oblivion weekends
Well, today I learned Mercenaries resist Dead Thrall at 38. They don't, however, at 28-- and I wish I was writing my findings down. I believe I tried enthralling one at 35 as well. My guess is they begin resisting after 36. I tried enthralling a Dark Elf (auto aggro) at 36 which succeeded, and an Assassin and Nord (instigated aggro) at 37 which also succeeded.

This input doesn't really help anything. It's common knowledge all these guys disappear if you wait, sleep, fast travel, or enter a building. One exception I ran into was at Drelas' Cottage with an Afflicted Refugee. He towed in, but I'm guessing that is only because it was a 'short' loading screen. It may work with others, though, it's nowhere near feasible in making these thralls... worth it...

Also, found out Logrulf resists Dead Thrall. That was a sad moment. I had hoped to give him the Mace of Molag Bal; however, I have been able to keep Vigilant Tyranus (semi-permanent/haven't tried leaving him for long periods, but he now survives a departure from Markarth) since completing the quest, and have given it to him.... Oh, the irony!

EDIT: Oh, yes, and I stumbled into something when I was acquiring Bashnag. It appears you don't have to enthrall someone at the cap, only enter the cell. I am unsure if they will "refresh" after 30 days or so. I entered Southfringe at 28, leveled to 35, and was still able to enthrall Bashnag after killing him. This just serves to add another characteristic to reanimation, further blurring the trade. As if it wasn't enough!
 
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