Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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Ivory

Let's Player
It's not really anything the Dunmer can't fix themselves, you know. Holes in walls and floorboards are still better than not having floorboards and walls at all

How about Galmar's brother harassing them at night? Or the homeless man who is with him when they threaten to "Find ways" what the dunmer really are? Or how about the bandits who slaughter Argonians or attack Khajiit Caravans and he doesn't raise a finger to help?

Oh right. They can totally fix that themselves.
 

Lewsean

Member
Maybe not to you, but to others it might be. Racism is clearly a subjective thing.
I just don't know why people feel the need to call a black person an "African American" if he's not a person originally from Africa who then move to America, even if he has ancestry there. I mean, I have ancestry in Scotland would you call me a Scottish American, no you'd call me an American. And what do you call a Black Person from England an "African Englishman." No you call him black because everyone's not a PC Social Justice Warrior over there.


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Politically correct. "Black" can be seen as derogatory/racist.
What planet are you living on? Black IS NOT A RACIST TERM. Seriously that comment is ridiculous.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Politically correct. "Black" can be seen as derogatory/racist.
How? Black people call themselves Black, they don't refer to themselves as African American, no Black person I've ever met has ever said or called himself an African American, because he isn't an African American because he isn't from Africa. He's a person with dark skin tone therefore he's Black. Damn beigists are ruining everything. Doesn't matter were getting off topic.


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Ivory

Let's Player
But they aren't seperate lol, they all mingle with eachother. You can't label something as racial segregation when not all people of said race are segregated. Compare it to ACTUAL racial segregation of blacks during 20th century America. Nothing in Windhelm is a Dunmer or Nord only area, everyone is free to go where they like.


"But they aren't separate lol, they all mingle with each other. They ride the same bus as us. They just have to ride in the back of the bus. You can't label something as racial segregation when not all people of said race are segregated, we ride the same bus! Next thing you know they'll want to ride in the front of the bus or not give up a seat to a white man! Everyone is free to go where they like. We have signs for a reason. Everything is Separate but Equal."
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
How about Galmar's brother harassing them at night? Or the homeless man who is with him when they threaten to "Find ways" what the dunmer really are? Or how about the bandits who slaughter Argonians or attack Khajiit Caravans and he doesn't raise a finger to help?

Oh right. They can totally fix that themselves.
If they can't with a petty racist or a home invader then they don't have much place in Nordic land. I've already explained the Brunwulf Free-Winter quote. Also why so hostile?


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Ivory

Let's Player
How about Galmar's brother harassing them at night? Or the homeless man who is with him when they threaten to "Find ways" what the dunmer really are? Or how about the bandits who slaughter Argonians or attack Khajiit Caravans and he doesn't raise a finger to help?

Oh right. They can totally fix that themselves.
If they can't with a petty racist or a home invader then they don't have much place in Nordic land. I've already explained the Brunwulf Free-Winter quote. Also why so hostile?

Not sure where you're reading hostility from. I'm just thinking with common sense. And I'm sorry, but do you mean to tell me that you'd be okay with Nordic people also being killed by said bandits and Ulfric didn't help them? That they weren't worthy of living in their home of Skyrim even if they were stormcloaks?
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
Not sure where you're reading hostility from. I'm just thinking with common sense. And I'm sorry, but do you mean to tell me that you'd be okay with Nordic people also being killed by said bandits and Ulfric didn't help them? That they weren't worthy of living in their home of Skyrim even if they were stormcloaks?
Sorry about that must have misread you. Anyway defending yourself against one random violent drunk in your home is different then getting attacked by multiple bandits on the roads of Skyrim. And even if Ulfric is only protecting Nord villages and Caravans that's better than getting no help from the Empire regardless of race.



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Raijin

A Mage that loves a Templar
"Whenever a group of marauders attack a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians, or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing. There's a group of cutthroats out there right now that Ulfric doesn't lift a finger to bring to justice, as long as they don't threaten Nord land." - Brunwulf

Now that is a pretty big accusation from Brunwulf, but we're given nothing from Ulfric's camp to refute it. Even again about why the Argonians are outside, Brunwulf says it is due to racial problems with Nords who think as Ulfric does.

You notice how Brunwulf mentions the word "refugees" when referencing to the Dunmer in his statement. Hes not talking about the Dunmers who are living in his city but outside. When he mentions the Argonians he can't possibly be talking about the ones living in his city, and Khajiit caravan? Their not even citizens of Skyrim. They pay no taxes so why should Ulfric waste men fighting a group of marauders on a group who doesn't contribute jack to the community? In fact the Khajiit caravan are barred from entering inside ALL of the cities in Skyrim (Including the Imperial controlled cities) for their high involvement of high crime and drugs. In fact theirs one who is already smashed on Skooma, and complains of the withdrawal symptoms.

The Nord villeges that Ulfrc sends men to help from the bandits pay their taxes. They help pay for salary of the guards, and soldiers.

Brunwulf is just another left-wing liberal, nothing more. Think that those who don't pay taxes should be given the same equality as those who do pay taxes.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
How about Galmar's brother harassing them at night? Or the homeless man who is with him when they threaten to "Find ways" what the dunmer really are? Or how about the bandits who slaughter Argonians or attack Khajiit Caravans and he doesn't raise a finger to help?

Oh right. They can totally fix that themselves.
If they can't with a petty racist or a home invader then they don't have much place in Nordic land. I've already explained the Brunwulf Free-Winter quote. Also why so hostile?


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Hostility is how we do it in Amerika anymore. I don't consider the blacks Americans either, well most of them because they hate white people... alot... they want to fund transform this country to be sub-subservient for them and they alone. At least they do over here. And the Muslim blacks hate Brits who live in the UK. Chopped one Brit soldier up on the street corner a few months back. Hate is the order of the day anymore, I make sure to leave for work everyday with my combat helmet on and eyes wide open.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
"Whenever a group of marauders attack a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians, or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing. There's a group of cutthroats out there right now that Ulfric doesn't lift a finger to bring to justice, as long as they don't threaten Nord land." - Brunwulf

Now that is a pretty big accusation from Brunwulf, but we're given nothing from Ulfric's camp to refute it. Even again about why the Argonians are outside, Brunwulf says it is due to racial problems with Nords who think as Ulfric does.

You notice how Brunwulf mentions the word "refugees" when referencing to the Dunmer in his statement. Hes not talking about the Dunmers who are living in his city but outside. When he mentions the Argonians he can't possibly be talking about the ones living in his city, and Khajiit caravan? Their not even citizens of Skyrim. They pay no taxes so why should Ulfric waste men fighting a group of marauders on a group who doesn't contribute jack to the community? In fact the Khajiit caravan are barred from entering inside ALL of the cities in Skyrim (Including the Imperial controlled cities) for their high involvement of high crime and drugs. In fact theirs one who is already smashed on Skooma, and complains of the withdrawal symptoms.

The Nord villeges that Ulfrc sends men to help from the bandits pay their taxes. They help pay for salary of the guards, and soldiers.

Brunwulf is just another left-wing liberal, nothing more. Think that those who don't pay taxes should be given the same equality as those who do pay taxes.


Uh no. Totally incorrect. Imperials are moderates.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
How about Galmar's brother harassing them at night? Or the homeless man who is with him when they threaten to "Find ways" what the dunmer really are? Or how about the bandits who slaughter Argonians or attack Khajiit Caravans and he doesn't raise a finger to help?

Oh right. They can totally fix that themselves.
If they can't with a petty racist or a home invader then they don't have much place in Nordic land. I've already explained the Brunwulf Free-Winter quote. Also why so hostile?


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It looks to me like he was just be assertive. Something Stormcloaks are known for being as well.
 

LegateFasendil

Imperial Legate
How about Galmar's brother harassing them at night? Or the homeless man who is with him when they threaten to "Find ways" what the dunmer really are? Or how about the bandits who slaughter Argonians or attack Khajiit Caravans and he doesn't raise a finger to help?

Oh right. They can totally fix that themselves.
If they can't with a petty racist or a home invader then they don't have much place in Nordic land. I've already explained the Brunwulf Free-Winter quote. Also why so hostile?


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Hostility is how we do it in Amerika anymore. I don't consider the blacks Americans either, well most of them because they hate white people... alot... they want to fund transform this country to be sub-subservient for them and they alone. At least they do over here. And the Muslim blacks hate Brits who live in the UK. Chopped one Brit soldier up on the street corner a few months back. Hate is the order of the day anymore, I make sure to leave for work everyday with my combat helmet on and eyes wide open.


See... this is what I'm talking about. But don't let me stop ya... Let the hate flowwww thru you... I'm saving up now for when things get too bad ---> I'm out.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
ladies and gentlemen I present to you Blood on The Ice.

The woman who brings her concerns about the 'Butcher', she is going to the guards. Also investigating murder =/= acknowledging concerns of stonework falling apart and taking a look.

You don't need to look for clues when discussing future plans for the repair of the city.

Explain to me how he's supposed to speak out against it, just give me an example of how he's supposed to do that.

The same way majority of politicians speak out against racial discrimination and hatred. "I don't support these actions and condemn those that claim to do so on my behalf"

If he can't find a way to speak out against it or use his guards to pull people into line when they do these things such as Rolff. Then why should he be the King of a land that has nine other races within it.

And yet their problems still exist when the Imperials take over.

"It's a new day in Windhelm. The Stormcloaks are gone, and so is their prejudice." - Scouts-Many-Marshes

"Ulfric and his Stormcloaks made no secret of their disdain for the Dark Elves. In fact, they didn't seem to care much for anyone who wasn't a Nord. The folk of the Empire have always had a more cosmopolitan view of the world, so I'm glad to see them in charge." - Malthyr Elenil


Let me just get this Brunwulf thing out of the way: The man is a hypocrite. it's just as Raijin said, he claims to be this big Proponent for Dunmer and Argonian equality yet we never see him in the New Gnisis Cornerclub and you never see him say anything to the Jarl he just sits at the table and eats,

He doesn't claim he's anything. If you ask him why help the dark elves, he'll reply, "Help the Dark Elves? Oh, you must have heard me talking to Malthyr." Brunwulf will continue by explaining, "The Dark Elves live in a run-down slum called the Gray Quarter. Ulfric's content to keep it that way. I guess they think I can open Ulfric's eyes to their plight, and get him to lift a finger on their behalf. I'm trying, but Ulfric is set in his ways. For him, there's two kinds of people in this world -- Nords, and the folk beneath them."

Why should he have to go into their Cornerclub? He never says anything to Ulfric, many people in Skyrim make reference to conversations they've had you don't actually see.

the man is also in love with Elda Early-Dawn the racist innkeeper at the Mead Hall.

So? Just because you love someone, it doesn't mean you have to share the same views. Many couples disagree with each other on subjects. My sister and her husband can't talk politics because one is left and the other right.

Let's not forget that he does NOTHING about the Argonian situation

"I'd like to, but it's not as simple as that. Most of the folk in the city believe as Ulfric did, that outsiders should not be trusted. Until those people learn to accept the Argonians, they must remain outside, for their own safety. Old habits don't die easily, and we Nords can be as stubborn as stone." - Brunwulf

and we see no change for the better in the Gray-Quarter.

What change are you expecting? Since neither the Dunmer or Brunwulf mention direct change right away.

"I've taken the first steps toward doing so already. I met with several of the Dark Elves to discuss improvements in the Gray Quarter, but we have no real plans as of yet. First we'll need to refill our coffers and stockpile stone and wood. The war took a heavy toll on Windhelm's resources." - Brunwulf

"Well, not yet. The Empire hasn't been in charge for that long, and real change takes time." - Aval

Now Brunwulf has pretty much zero credibility and no political place in Windhelm

He never wanted to be Jarl and he also considers Ulfric a good leader, for Nords anyway.

so when he is he only NPC who says that Ulfric doesn't help Non Nordic people you'll have to forgive me for taking his word with a grain of salt.

Couple of Dunmer say the same thing. If we're discounting things because only one NPC says it, then you're removing some good pro Stormcloak points to hit the Imperial supporters with.
 

Ivory

Let's Player
Sorry about that must have misread you. Anyway defending yourself against one random violent drunk in your home is different then getting attacked by multiple bandits on the roads of Skyrim. And even if Ulfric is only protecting Nord villages and Caravans that's better than getting no help from the Empire regardless of race.

It's alright mate. A lot of people tend to think I'm hostile sometimes. Y'get used to it.

The Empire has been fighting against bandits, forsworn, and many others besides just the people they were sent to take down. Not sure where you're getting the idea the empire doesn't help anyone when the soldiers do aid you against many enemies in the game.
 
J

Jeremius

Guest
Politically correct. "Black" can be seen as derogatory/racist.
How? Black people call themselves Black, they don't refer to themselves as African American, no Black person I've ever met has ever said or called himself an African American, because he isn't an African American because he isn't from Africa. He's a person with dark skin tone therefore he's Black. Damn beigists are ruining everything. Doesn't matter were getting off topic.


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I do not call people black or even African American. If I know their name, I call them by their name.
 

Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
The woman who brings her concerns about the 'Butcher', she is going to the guards. Also investigating murder =/= acknowledging concerns of stonework falling apart and taking a look.
I'm trying to say that three Nord women were murdered yet Ulfric didn't do anything about it because of the War just like he doesn't do anything about the Dunmer situation because of The War.

You don't need to look for clues when discussing future plans for the repair of the city.
Do you really need to complain to the Jarl about broken Stonework and hopes in your floor if you're a refugee or are you just completely lazy.

The same way majority of politicians speak out against racial discrimination and hatred. "I don't support these actions and condemn those that claim to do so on my behalf"
Well then he defies a portion of his army and supporters, and he needs all the help he can get in that regard

If he can't find a way to speak out against it or use his guards to pull people into line when they do these things such as Rolff. Then why should he be the King of a land that has nine other races within it.[/quote]
He can't just put Rolff into line for talking, that could be seen as oppression of his own people, which is the reason he's fighting he war in the first place. These issues are very minimal compared to the war.



"It's a new day in Windhelm. The Stormcloaks are gone, and so is their prejudice." - Scouts-Many-Marshes
Because it was Ulfric's administration that didn't allow them to live in Windhelm

"Ulfric and his Stormcloaks made no secret of their disdain for the Dark Elves. In fact, they didn't seem to care much for anyone who wasn't a Nord. The folk of the Empire have always had a more cosmopolitan view of the world, so I'm glad to see them in charge." - Malthyr Elenil
Ulfric never speaks about his disdain for the Dark Elves.




He doesn't claim he's anything. If you ask him why help the dark elves, he'll reply, "Help the Dark Elves? Oh, you must have heard me talking to Malthyr." Brunwulf will continue by explaining, "The Dark Elves live in a run-down slum called the Gray Quarter. Ulfric's content to keep it that way. I guess they think I can open Ulfric's eyes to their plight, and get him to lift a finger on their behalf. I'm trying, but Ulfric is set in his ways. For him, there's two kinds of people in this world -- Nords, and the folk beneath them."
He literally just said that he wants to help the Dark Elves

Why should he have to go into their Cornerclub? He never says anything to Ulfric, many people in Skyrim make reference to conversations they've had you don't actually see.
Because he's in the Palace of the Kings he's obviously supposed to be talking to Ulfric about the Dark Elves and never does.



So? Just because you love someone, it doesn't mean you have to share the same views. Many couples disagree with each other on subjects. My sister and her husband can't talk politics because one is left and the other right.
Political Views aren't as big as views on Racial Equality. Almost always when you have someone like Brunwulf, who is a huge proponent for Dunmer and Argonian equality, paired with someone like Elda Early Dawn, who's views on the refugees are less than stellar, love will not be in the air.


"I'd like to, but it's not as simple as that. Most of the folk in the city believe as Ulfric did, that outsiders should not be trusted. Until those people learn to accept the Argonians, they must remain outside, for their own safety. Old habits don't die easily, and we Nords can be as stubborn as stone." - Brunwulf
Well isn't it possible that Ulfric also thinks the same thing but can't do anything about it because of the War

Couple of Dunmer say the same thing. If we're discounting things because only one NPC says it, then you're removing some good pro Stormcloak points to hit the Imperial supporters with.
He's the only one who says Ulfric doesn't help Khajiit caravans and Argonian Groups, so I don't take his word very seriously.



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Mikulas Black-Blade

The Cave Bear
It's alright mate. A lot of people tend to think I'm hostile sometimes. Y'get used to it.

The Empire has been fighting against bandits, forsworn, and many others besides just the people they were sent to take down. Not sure where you're getting the idea the empire doesn't help anyone when the soldiers do aid you against many enemies in the game.
I mean That I see Imperials protecting Nobles on the road, specifically nobles so if Brunwulf's words are true then Ulfric is being quote generous "sounding the horn" for Nord Villages and Farms


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