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When it comes to the reasons, I think you got one wrong. Just because Nords are the only ones joining does not mean they are racist. The ignore Adrienne likely because they know her father was the advisor to the old Jarl Balgruuf.
Understand that I said most of them are. Sure, there are many exceptions to my Racism Criticism of the Stormcloaks, but more often than not, the amount of Racist Nords out ways that of the Tolerant ones. I didn't mean that they ALL were racist and ignorant, but most of them.
Unless you count Rolff and his buddy as stormcloaks, none of the rebels are truly racist. It is just that Nords seem to be the only one that gets drawn to the rebellion.
Plus, it is not really racism to begin with, but lack of trust in other races until the members prove themselves. The only ones the nords are truly "racist" towards are the Khajiit, and that is because the cat people brought that on themselves.
Dug through some more dialogue and found this within Maven's:
Maven: "Hemming, have you dispatched that letter I gave you yesterday?" Hemming: "Yes, and I sent it with our fastest courier and under the cover of night, exactly as you specified." Maven: "Good. If I need to light a few fires in order to get what we need to defend this place from the Stormcloaks, so be it." Hemming: "I'm almost certain he'll reach the Imperial City tomorrow, so we should have an answer by the end of the week."
I think it's clear that she's doing this to secure her spot as Jarl (as in keep her power), but nonetheless she's ready to pressure some folks in the Capital to squeeze out a few soldiers not just for her shipment, but also her hold/to work against the Stormcloaks.
Just to address the old "Maven gets soldiers for mead but Tullius not even any more for Skyrim"-argument.
Plus, it is not really racism to begin with, but lack of trust in other races until the members prove themselves. The only ones the nords are truly "racist" towards are the Khajiit, and that is because the cat people brought that on themselves.
So people see mexicans as lazy, asians as bad drivers, blacks as thieves, murders, and whites as racists and bigoted rednecks.
Did they all bring it upon themselves?
I'm sorry but that's so backwards that you're literally defending racist acts. Y'might wanna re-evaluate that thought process mate. You're looking at a minority of a race and blaming them all for it saying they all deserve it.
Even if you defended the fact that some of the Caravans are indeed in league with the thieves guild (Which only happens if they recover in future installments) it's still backwards due to the fact the entire guild is run by a breton, and a nord. At least until the player changes that. And that's assuming the Player is a Khajiit. And in the vanilla game there are No Khajiit members in the Guild. That should tell you something.
There are Breton thieves, Nord thieves, Redguard, argonian and every other race. Hell, the thieves guild itself goes up against an All Altmer thieves guild.
You run into so many Khajiit throughout the games who clearly are NOT thieves and who hate what Skooma does to people.
ESO Spoiler incoming.
Hell, in ESO there is a plantation on Khajiit lands who cultivate moon sugar for legitimate uses and absolutely HATE what Skooma is and does to people and an entire quest that delves into the bad rap Moon Sugar gets for being the main ingredient in Skooma.
So, congrats, you defended Racism in the stormcloaks and Nords in general which that too, you're wrong. Not all Nords are racist towards the Khajiit people.
I won't lie, this post genuinely upset me. Damn man.
So people see mexicans as lazy, asians as bad drivers, blacks as thieves, murders, and whites as racists and bigoted rednecks.
Did they all bring it upon themselves?
I'm sorry but that's so backwards that you're literally defending racist acts. Y'might wanna re-evaluate that thought process mate. You're looking at a minority of a race and blaming them all for it saying they all deserve it.
Even if you defended the fact that some of the Caravans are indeed in league with the thieves guild (Which only happens if they recover in future installments) it's still backwards due to the fact the entire guild is run by a breton, and a nord. At least until the player changes that. And that's assuming the Player is a Khajiit. And in the vanilla game there are No Khajiit members in the Guild. That should tell you something.
There are Breton thieves, Nord thieves, Redguard, argonian and every other race. Hell, the thieves guild itself goes up against an All Altmer thieves guild.
You run into so many Khajiit throughout the games who clearly are NOT thieves and who hate what Skooma does to people.
ESO Spoiler incoming.
Hell, in ESO there is a plantation on Khajiit lands who cultivate moon sugar for legitimate uses and absolutely HATE what Skooma is and does to people and an entire quest that delves into the bad rap Moon Sugar gets for being the main ingredient in Skooma.
So, congrats, you defended Racism in the stormcloaks and Nords in general which that too, you're wrong. Not all Nords are racist towards the Khajiit people.
I won't lie, this post genuinely upset me. Damn man.
Considering I find a lot of Khajiit that are bandits or other lowlifes...Also, A lot of Khajiit ARE thieves, their skill boosts make them perfect as cat burglars. Makes sense that a few bad apples spoiled the entire race and made people hate them.
And I am not defending completely. the person I was responding to said her refused to side with the stormcloaks because they are racist, when obviously the entire province of Skyrim is full of racists, some of home have bad raps that they do nothing to correct.
Considering I find a lot of Khajiit that are bandits or other lowlifes...Also, A lot of Khajiit ARE thieves, their skill boosts make them perfect as cat burglars. Makes sense that a few bad apples spoiled the entire race and made people hate them.
And I am not defending completely. the person I was responding to said her refused to side with the stormcloaks because they are racist, when obviously the entire province of Skyrim is full of racists, some of home have bad raps that they do nothing to correct.
You mean like the Nordic bandits, Redguard, Bosmer, Dunmer, Orsimer, Breton, Imperial and Argonian bandits? Hell the only bandit type I haven't seen is Altmer and even then you can stumble across the random Altmer that attacks you, like every other race.
Not all stormcloaks are racist sure, that's probably fact. However most of them are xenophobic. Their ENTIRE BANNER is Skyrim is for the Nords and that they are the "True" Sons and Daughters of Skyrim as if Nords that are not against Imperial rule should be disowned from being welcome in their own homeland. Windhelm is a testament to this hatred. Dunmer live in the slums that was racistly named The Grey Quarter while argonians are forced to live outside on the docks.
Even after Imperial rule takes Windhelm, the new Jarl slowly has to integrate the argonian people, otherwise he KNOWS the xenophobic nords will take action, just as they do against the Dunmer while Ulfric rules, if not worse.
Considering I find a lot of Khajiit that are bandits or other lowlifes...Also, A lot of Khajiit ARE thieves, their skill boosts make them perfect as cat burglars. Makes sense that a few bad apples spoiled the entire race and made people hate them.
And I am not defending completely. the person I was responding to said her refused to side with the stormcloaks because they are racist, when obviously the entire province of Skyrim is full of racists, some of home have bad raps that they do nothing to correct.
You mean like the Nordic bandits, Redguard, Bosmer, Dunmer, Orsimer, Breton, Imperial and Argonian bandits? Hell the only bandit type I haven't seen is Altmer and even then you can stumble across the random Altmer that attacks you, like every other race.
Not all stormcloaks are racist sure, that's probably fact. However most of them are xenophobic. Their ENTIRE BANNER is Skyrim is for the Nords and that they are the "True" Sons and Daughters of Skyrim as if Nords that are not against Imperial rule should be disowned from being welcome in their own homeland. Windhelm is a testament to this hatred. Dunmer live in the slums that was racistly named The Grey Quarter while argonians are forced to live outside on the docks.
Even after Imperial rule takes Windhelm, the new Jarl slowly has to integrate the argonian people, otherwise he KNOWS the xenophobic nords will take action, just as they do against the Dunmer while Ulfric rules, if not worse.
I think you are grossly misinterpreting that line. Could easily be that they think that only NORDS should rule the province and not have outside influences in the province at all.
The Grey Quarter DOES NOT prove that they are RACIST, just that the Dunmer live there and complain because the Jarl at the time does not bend to their every whim when they have their whim.
I think you are grossly misinterpreting that line. Could easily be that they think that only NORDS should rule the province and not have outside influences in the province at all.
The Grey Quarter DOES NOT prove that they are RACIST, just that the Dunmer live there and complain because the Jarl at the time does not bend to their every whim when they have their whim.
Which is Xenophobia. They single out the Dunmer by forcing them to live in an area called the GREY Quarter. GREY as in their SKIN. That is the very definition of Racism.
I think you are grossly misinterpreting that line. Could easily be that they think that only NORDS should rule the province and not have outside influences in the province at all.
The Grey Quarter DOES NOT prove that they are RACIST, just that the Dunmer live there and complain because the Jarl at the time does not bend to their every whim when they have their whim.
Which is Xenophobia. They single out the Dunmer by forcing them to live in an area called the GREY Quarter. GREY as in their SKIN. That is the very definition of Racism.
All you proved was that Stormcloaks hate the Empire and that Windhelm is racist, not that the stormcloaks themselves are racist all the time for every member.
All you proved was that Stormcloaks hate the Empire and that Windhelm is racist, not that the stormcloaks themselves are racist all the time for every member.
Read back. I agreed with you that not every Stormcloak was racist. You however argued that the ones that ARE racist are allowed to be when it comes to Khajiit because "they deserved it". You defended racism with racism, and I called you out on it. The sooner you see that, the sooner you can realize what you're doing is defending the very enemy of the Stormcloak rebellion. The xenophobia that will Destroy Skyrim.
All you proved was that Stormcloaks hate the Empire and that Windhelm is racist, not that the stormcloaks themselves are racist all the time for every member.
Read back. I agreed with you that not every Stormcloak was racist. You however argued that the ones that ARE racist are allowed to be when it comes to Khajiit because "they deserved it". You defended racism with racism, and I called you out on it. The sooner you see that, the sooner you can realize what you're doing is defending the very enemy of the Stormcloak rebellion. The xenophobia that will Destroy Skyrim.
What I said was they the Khajiit brought it on themselves, yes. But what you do not understand is that the Khajiit did bring it on themselves. They refuse to convince people that they are not thieves and skooma dealers like their reputation says they are. They do nothing but walk around outside all day, making them look more guilty.
What I said was they the Khajiit brought it on themselves, yes. But what you do not understand is that the Khajiit did bring it on themselves. They refuse to convince people that they are not thieves and skooma dealers like their reputation says they are. They do nothing but walk around outside all day, making them look more guilty.
And the round about logic continues. You are calling them guilty on the assumption that they are outside, "stalking" the cities if you will.
Do you realized it was the Jarls, all of them, who deny the Khajiit to enter the city and prove themselves? They do nothing outside the cities except sell to buyers, Stormcloak and Imperial alike because guess what? They are traders. They do not kill, they do not murder or steal.
The only thieves are The Thieves guild, which I again say, has no Khajiit members.
What I said was they the Khajiit brought it on themselves, yes. But what you do not understand is that the Khajiit did bring it on themselves. They refuse to convince people that they are not thieves and skooma dealers like their reputation says they are. They do nothing but walk around outside all day, making them look more guilty.
And the round about logic continues. You are calling them guilty on the assumption that they are outside, "stalking" the cities if you will.
Do you realized it was the Jarls, all of them, who deny the Khajiit to enter the city and prove themselves? They do nothing outside the cities except sell to buyers, Stormcloak and Imperial alike because guess what? They are traders. They do not kill, they do not murder or steal.
The only thieves are The Thieves guild, which I again say, has no Khajiit members.
The Jarls did so because of their reputations, and the Khajiit do not ask for the opportunity to prove themselves. They want the racism to stop? they have to be the ones to step up and do something about it.
And it is pretty much just the caravans. Individual Khajiit can come and go as is seen in the game, but the Caravans are stuck outside. That is not truly racist.
I think it really depends on the character and their motives but it seems to me that the Stormcloaks share Ulfric's belief that Skyrim belongs to the Nords and the Empire "bended a knee" to the Thalmor by signing the White Gold Concordat. Skyrim is the land of the Nords so anyone else are just outsiders to them.
The Jarls did so because of their reputations, and the Khajiit do not ask for the opportunity to prove themselves. They want the racism to stop? they have to be the ones to step up and do something about it.
And how, pray tell do you expect the Khajiit to do so when they are denied entry to begin with?
Let's say we go by your way.
Khajiit Merchant: "I'd like to be allowed into the city to sell my goods and wares to your people"
Guard: "No. You're all theives and smugglers. Get lost"
Merchant: "May I request an audience with the Jarl?"
Guard: "No. You're all theives and smugglers and up to no good. Get Lost."
So how, might I ask is it possible to prove themselves to bigots who irrationally hate them when they aren't even allowed in the city. How would you prove yourself to a person who denies you everything you have a right to, because of what you look like?
Stormcloaks are already too xenophobic to even consider it, and they only ones who probably WOULD do so if they were given the chance, would be from Jarl Balgruf. Or the Jarl in Morthal.
The Jarls did so because of their reputations, and the Khajiit do not ask for the opportunity to prove themselves. They want the racism to stop? they have to be the ones to step up and do something about it.
And how, pray tell do you expect the Khajiit to do so when they are denied entry to begin with?
Let's say we go by your way.
Khajiit Merchant: "I'd like to be allowed into the city to sell my goods and wares to your people"
Guard: "No. You're all theives and smugglers. Get lost"
Merchant: "May I request an audience with the Jarl?"
Guard: "No. You're all theives and smugglers and up to no good. Get Lost."
So how, might I ask is it possible to prove themselves to bigots who irrationally hate them when they aren't even allowed in the city. How would you prove yourself to a person who denies you everything you have a right to, because of what you look like?
Stormcloaks are already too xenophobic to even consider it, and they only ones who probably WOULD do so if they were given the chance, would be from Jarl Balgruf. Or the Jarl in Morthal.
Again with the Stormcloaks=Xenophobic. Did I not already prove that that is not necessarily true? The windhelm thing does not equal stormcloaks racism/xenophobia, and that line could mean anything. As for the Khajiit, it is only the caravans who are not allowed in, and NONE of the Jarls, Balgruuf or Ravencrone, allow them in AT ALL.
Again with the Stormcloaks=Xenophobic. Did I not already prove that that is not necessarily true? The windhelm thing does not equal stormcloaks racism/xenophobia, and that line could mean anything. As for the Khajiit, it is only the caravans who are not allowed in, and NONE of the Jarls, Balgruuf or Ravencrone, allow them in AT ALL.
1. Stormcloak and Imperial Jarls all are xenophobic against the Khajiit. Name one Rebel Jarl that allows the Khajiit access. That is Xenophobia, and the same goes for Imperial Jarls.
2.You're making the mistake that I'm on a side. I am not. Both Imperial and Stormcloak Jarls refuse to give the Khajiits the chance to prove themselves. Name one Khajiit that is inside ANY of the holds in the game. Also, using the Dragonborn isn't your best choice, because the first two towns a Khajiit Dragonborn visits in the Lore are Riverwood and Whiterun. Both under a side that goes with the Imperials, if only for the reason that a Khajiit Dragonborn is there to warn Jarl Balgruf about an impending Dragon attack. In any other instance, perhaps he would not have allowed the Khajiit dragonborn into the city.
And in fact, it does take point that Jarl Balgruf's men are willing to put any xenophobia aside (assuming there is some there), to protect their hold from the impending rumor and danger.
Again with the Stormcloaks=Xenophobic. Did I not already prove that that is not necessarily true? The windhelm thing does not equal stormcloaks racism/xenophobia, and that line could mean anything. As for the Khajiit, it is only the caravans who are not allowed in, and NONE of the Jarls, Balgruuf or Ravencrone, allow them in AT ALL.
1. Stormcloak and Imperial Jarls all are xenophobic against the Khajiit. Name one Rebel Jarl that allows the Khajiit access. That is Xenophobia, and the same goes for Imperial Jarls.
2.You're making the mistake that I'm on a side. I am not. Both Imperial and Stormcloak Jarls refuse to give the Khajiits the chance to prove themselves. Name one Khajiit that is inside ANY of the holds in the game. Also, using the Dragonborn isn't your best choice, because the first two towns a Khajiit Dragonborn visits in the Lore are Riverwood and Whiterun. Both under a side that goes with the Imperials, if only for the reason that a Khajiit Dragonborn is there to warn Jarl Balgruf about an impending Dragon attack. In any other instance, perhaps he would not have allowed the Khajiit dragonborn into the city.
And in fact, it does take point that Jarl Balgruf's men are willing to put any xenophobia aside (assuming there is some there), to protect their hold from the impending rumor and danger.
Perhaps, but it still proves that THAT is how SKYRIM WORKS. The Khajiit do not like that Nords are not all that trusting of them because of their reputation that refuse to do anything with because they always move around, thus making them look guilty (as criminals and drug dealers tend to move around to not get caught), they can leave.
The sooner you realize that the Nords of Skyrim are just naturally distrusting of ANY non-nord until they actually prove themselves, especially if the race has a bad reputation, the better.
Perhaps, but it still proves that THAT is how SKYRIM WORKS. The Khajiit do not like that Nords are not all that trusting of them because of their reputation that refuse to do anything with because they always move around, thus making them look guilty (as criminals and drug dealers tend to move around to not get caught), they can leave.
Hmm. I'm a Breton from the Reach who's lands were stolen from the Nords. My ancestors were here before the nords. I have the right to kick Nords out of the Reach and reclaim what is mine through any means necessary.
Hmm. I'm a Falmer who was massacred by the Atmoran people and forced under ground by the Nords and turned into slaves. We hate the outside world and all the surface dwellers who took Skyrim (Merith) from us deserve to be caste out.
Hmm. I'm a Thalmor in the Aldmeri Dominion and the disgusting humans are now going to be our slaves after the "hero" Tiber Septim invaded our land and conquered us. Tamriel used to be Elven domain. It will be ours again.
My point? Things change. Black Marsh, Elswyre, and every other province in Tamriel has changed in the many years they've been around. Why does skyrim get a free pass when it too has changed so much over the years? Go into crypts and see the Nords ancestors use Magic they shun. Go into the Reach and see the Forsworn murder and destory because their land was stolen from them.
All because of Xenophobia in Skyrim. Skyrim will fall, because for all of the Nordic people's views of honor and battle, they fear everything in their lands that are not them.
It is the Nords of Skyrim that fight their own brothers and sisters, to once more change skyrim from becoming a xenophobic province of hatred and biggotry, that die and spill their own blood to protect themselves from the Nords who outright deny THEM their right to be called nords because they welcome outsiders.
It's clear that from this war, only half of skyrim suffers from Xenophobia. So do not claim that Skyrim should be hateful and attack the other provinces (Which they've done in the past) because that's "How skyrim works". Half of Skyrim disagrees with you.
Perhaps, but it still proves that THAT is how SKYRIM WORKS. The Khajiit do not like that Nords are not all that trusting of them because of their reputation that refuse to do anything with because they always move around, thus making them look guilty (as criminals and drug dealers tend to move around to not get caught), they can leave.
Hmm. I'm a Breton from the Reach who's lands were stolen from the Nords. My ancestors were here before the nords. I have the right to kick Nords out of the Reach and reclaim what is mine through any means necessary.
Hmm. I'm a Falmer who was massacred by the Atmoran people and forced under ground by the Nords and turned into slaves. We hate the outside world and all the surface dwellers who took Skyrim (Merith) from us deserve to be caste out.
Hmm. I'm a Thalmor in the Aldmeri Dominion and the disgusting humans are now going to be our slaves after the "hero" Tiber Septim invaded our land and conquered us. Tamriel used to be Elven domain. It will be ours again.
My point? Things change. Black Marsh, Elswyre, and every other province in Tamriel has changed in the many years they've been around. Why does skyrim get a free pass when it too has changed so much over the years? Go into crypts and see the Nords ancestors use Magic they shun. Go into the Reach and see the Forsworn murder and destory because their land was stolen from them.
All because of Xenophobia in Skyrim. Skyrim will fall, because for all of the Nordic people's views of honor and battle, they fear everything in their lands that are not them.
It is the Nords of Skyrim that fight their own brothers and sisters, to once more change skyrim from becoming a xenophobic province of hatred and biggotry, that die and spill their own blood to protect themselves from the Nords who outright deny THEM their right to be called nords because they welcome outsiders.
It's clear that from this war, only half of skyrim suffers from Xenophobia. So do not claim that Skyrim should be hateful and attack the other provinces (Which they've done in the past) because that's "How skyrim works". Half of Skyrim disagrees with you.
and all of Skyrim has problems with other races. Many distrust naturally. All have to prove themselves, but only nords get treated with respect from the get go. Skyrim is built on proving oneself, and they distrust everyone. If they do not want you around, then you have to work much harder to gain the respect. You do not get respect just by being around in skyrim.
My opinion is that I do not care about what people think. I want to play a nord, I will be a nord, I want to be an orc, I will be an orc.
