Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

  • Welcome to Skyrim Forums! Register now to participate using the 'Sign Up' button on the right. You may now register with your Facebook or Steam account!

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Oh, Drunken. Never, ever change. :p

I don't plan to. :p

The Imperial supporters these days would mainly rely on me, always tagging me into threads when pro Stormcloaks were posting.

They all ran to the hills, or became Stormcloaks now.
 

AS88

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I'm just waiting for the time when DM changes to supporting the Thalmor.

I think we can all agree that by allowing him to stay on this thread and eat, sleep and breathe the Civil War for the past 750 pages we have created a monster of mass procrastination that cannot be stopped.
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
Oh, Drunken. Never, ever change. :p

I don't plan to. :p

The Imperial supporters these days would mainly rely on me, always tagging me into threads when pro Stormcloaks were posting.

They all ran to the hills, or became Stormcloaks now.

I had a feeling that was part of why circumstances are as they are now. :p

You have done a fantastic job of putting the relevant information on the table. It's not hidden - anyone interested can go back and look for it. You were very good about giving links and citations, so there was really no reason why anyone needed to tag you to argue in their stead. All of the information is there. It hasn't gone anywhere. So I can understand feeling somewhat frustrated with that.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
30811.jpg
NENALATA said:
But where were you all before minus Anouck? It doesn't matter however I do hope you know what I'm saying...​
I'm not sure I know what you're saying. This thread was created over two years ago, and eight months before Anouck joined the forums. The Stormcloak vs. Imperial issue was debated on other threads prior to that. Where were we before Anouck? We were here, making the same arguments and offering the same evidence to back them up.


Yeah but that was then. You're making quite a few comments about me and during my time here, I can't remember ever dealing with you.


30811.jpg
NENALATA said:
Although keep in mind, choosing an defacto faction is not really a requirement on here​
No, it isn't. I can't speak for everyone, especially since I've only recently returned to this thread and haven't witnessed your jumping sides, but in my opinion, the problem isn't choosing one faction and sticking to it. The problem is that you present "evidence" which is completely false to support your claim. I personally don't care if you pick a side. However, I would like you to do some research so you can debate with accurate facts instead of biased opinion, heresay, and downright lies.


Whoa - Hold up. This is what I'm talking about.

You're calling me a liar now?

I just let Mage off the hook and came to terms with what faction I closest represent.

That does not make me a liar. Furthermore, this PROVES to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are just being another Dagmar.

Dagmar NEVER kicked my ass because I always presented facts, things that even she didn't know.

Hmmm. And it was ironically enough, my Thalmor arguments which showed people the light.

You're wrong ~ It's YOUR BIASED OPINION ~ I've presented facts, wouldn't have gotten this far had I not. I'm not going to sit here and post links to every Tome in Skyrim just for your biased gratification.

I've noticed your posts recently, they're very charged with emotion and completely lacking of substance.

Maybe me and Mage don't always say eye to eye but getting on here and calling me a liar and this and that when you've never even countered one of my arguments is very Dagmarish. And arrogant.

So for that reason, I'll stay with the Thalmor. Why? Because I can that's why.

And just for the record, I defeated Dagmar too. Several times. The only person to really do so... that I'm aware of. Because she was pro-Imperial like alot of others on here at that time.

And I can understand why the Thalmor are sooo angry with the Imperials, it's because of pl*ps like this right here.
 

AS88

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I'd have thought that you'd have learned you use the quote function and to learn that nobody ever truly defeats Dagmar. You were like the Tongues of Old, merely delaying the epic beatdown for another time.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
I'd have thought that you'd have learned you use the quote function and to learn that nobody ever truly defeats Dagmar. You were like the Tongues of Old, merely delaying the epic beatdown for another time.



Beatdown? I'm still standing brother, I've dealt with my demons.
 

imaginepageant

Slytherin Alumni
You're calling me a liar now?
No. I said you were using biased opinions, heresay, and lies to support your argument. That does not necessarily mean you are the one creating the lies. Sorry, would "falsehoods" have been a better term to use?

You're wrong ~ It's YOUR BIASED OPINION I've presented facts.
Facts? To borrow a quote from my favorite Stormcloak, don't hand me a mug of sheep's piss and call it mead.

I've noticed your posts recently, they're very charged with emotion and completely lacking of substance.
Oh? I'm not the one shouting and wrongly perceiving personal attacks here.

you've never even countered one of my arguments

Haven't I? What do you call this?
 

AS88

Well-Known Member
Staff member
That could be a point for another debate, one that I won't start now. Just because you're 'still standing' doesn't mean that you haven't been proved incorrect or that your view has been the one that the interested people here think is correct, it just means you're still trying.

(Nice work on the quotes, though :p)
 

Anouck

Queen of Procrastination
Whoa - Hold up. This is what I'm talking about.

You're calling me a liar now?
No, she said there are things you present as facts while they are not. That can either be ignorance (we all post incorrect arguments from time to time) or you're doing it on purpose.It doesn't go for all the arguments you mention. But some of 'em indeed are false.

I just let Mage off the hook and came to terms with what faction I closest represent.
Let the whole Mage thing go. No one is talking about him right now.

That does not make me a liar. Furthermore, this PROVES to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are just being another Dagmar.
A person calls you out on mentioning something incorrect, and that's bad? Is everyone who proves you wrong 'a Dagmar' now? :p
You have to understand: You can tell a lie without being a liar. If Docta would tell me 1+1=3 that would be a lie, but if I honestly believe that and spread it without knowing it is wrong I am not a liar. Saying something inaccurate does not automatically mean you're a liar.

Dagmar NEVER kicked my ass because I always presented facts, things that even she didn't know.
No. Not always. Just no. You present facts, but sometimes the things you say are wrong. People in the thread have been pointing that out. If you, however, simply refuse to acknowledge that, it is going to be very easy to think you always present accurate facts.

Hmmm. And it was ironically enough, my Thalmor arguments which showed people the light.
Which light? People have been switching between Imperials and Stormcloaks for hundreds of pages - but the amount of AD supporters in here has always been low. In the latest pages you have actually been pretty much the only Thalmor supporter.

You're wrong ~ It's YOUR BIASED OPINION I've presented facts. I'm not going to sit here and post links to every Tome in Skyrim just for your biased gratification.
Are we really going to turn things around? Someone says you're wrong so you hit the caps lock and tell them they're wrong? The argument she counters has been countered by Mage, me, Raijin and others in this thread. Yet you keep saying the argument is true. Get over it; it is not. And guess what? That's not a bad thing. I've said so many things that were inaccurate. What matters is not that you're flawless, but that you accept you're not and allow others to correct you.

Also, posting sources has nothing to do with trust or suspicion. Everyone in here does it. Lore can often be misinterpreted, and when a person mentions 'a fact' it is very important people can see where that 'fact' comes from. We can't take people on their word, because people sometimes make mistakes - usually unintentionally. That is nothing personal.

No one can force you to post links. It just reduces your own credibility.

I've noticed your posts recently, they're very charged with emotion and completely lacking of substance.
I've 'noticed' her posts too. She earned over more than 100 rep points by just making two replies here. Apparently not everyone agrees with you on this. ;)

Maybe me and Mage don't always say eye to eye but getting on here and calling me a liar and this and that when you've never even countered one of my arguments is very Dagmarish. And arrogant.
It would be if she would claim something without backing it up - but she didn't. She came in here and straight out proved you wrong. That does not make her arrogant.

Also, I can't forbid you to do things. But I find it inappropriate to use Dagmar's name as an insult - especially since she is not here to defend herself. I remember when Dagmar posted in here daily, and back then no one dared to say a thing against her. Now she is gone and people talk bad. That's not only low, it is also cowardly.

So for that reason, I'll stay with the Thalmor. Why? Because I can that's why.
No one said you couldn't.

And just for the record, I defeated Dagmar too. Several times. The only person to really do so.
No, you just refuse to acknowledge it when you're wrong. That way it is very easy to win debates.
 

NENALATA

Last King of the Ayleids - RETIRED
Wow! It's like... it's like I don't even know you guys anymore.

Perhaps I never did.

Prejudging Mage was wrong of me sure, however somewhere deep inside I'm sure he's still an Imperial. But that's not my call to make.

I have never refused to acknowledge when I was wrong. Hell, I just did. It's just that you have never been able to prove it.

And you did call me a liar just now. Clearly.

It's just that some of you folks don't have to admit you're wrong because of the luxury of your friends.

So says the Iron to Forge when it's harvested. :)

Saying I'm this and that doesn't prove it is true Anouck and Imagine.
 

Anouck

Queen of Procrastination
Wow! It's like... it's like I don't even know you guys anymore.

Perhaps I never did.

Prejudging Mage was wrong of me sure, however somewhere deep inside I'm sure he's still an Imperial. But that's not my call to make.

I have never refused to acknowledge when I was wrong. Hell, I just did. It's just that you have never been able to prove it.

And you did call me a liar just now. Clearly.

It's just that some of you folks don't have to admit you're wrong because of the luxury of your friends.

So says the Iron to Forge when it's harvested. :)

Saying I'm this and that doesn't prove it is true Anouck and Imagine.

I didn't call you a liar. I literally said: 'You have to understand: You can tell a lie without being a liar. If Docta would tell me 1+1=3 that would be a lie, but if I honestly believe that and spread it without knowing it is wrong I am not a liar. Saying something inaccurate does not automatically mean you're a liar'

The reason why us 'folks' right now are not admitting we are wrong, is because we aren't. We have been before. All of us have been. But in this case you're wrong and someone pointed that out to you.
When you refuse to acknowledge that, people call you out on it. And your counter argument to that is that I am not admitting either I am wrong- therefor I can't say anything to you? There's no point in acting like I am not making sense when my arguments towards you have been pretty accurate so far.

When AS88, who is usually neutral in here, iPag, DrunkenMage and me are saying you made a mistake somewhere - are we all so dead wrong? Or did it ever occur to you that you maybe made a mistake?
You see, when people make a valid point against you, you start crying victim. You either accuse people of being 'popular' and getting instant back up from their friends, or you claim that people go after you for the sake of doing so.

If you are right, then you obviously have enough arguments to prove it. Why don't you go back to iPag's first post and use arguments to prove her wrong? Why don't you do that instead of saying she's 'a Dagmar who doesn't make any sense'?
 

Dram

the Dunmer
Wow! It's like... it's like I don't even know you guys anymore.

Perhaps I never did.

Prejudging Mage was wrong of me sure, however somewhere deep inside I'm sure he's still an Imperial. But that's not my call to make.

I have never refused to acknowledge when I was wrong. Hell, I just did. It's just that you have never been able to prove it.

And you did call me a liar just now. Clearly.

It's just that some of you folks don't have to admit you're wrong because of the luxury of your friends.

So says the Iron to Forge when it's harvested. :)

Saying I'm this and that doesn't prove it is true Anouck and Imagine.


I don't think people were talking about your prejudging of DrunkenMage. They were talking about not admitting your mistakes when you make them. And now you try to show they're wrong by admitting a random other mistake. I might be wrong but I think people are trying to make it clear to you that Ulfric was not to blame for what happened in Hammerfell. I could mention reasons but others already have before me. Giving in on the stuff you said about Mage doesn't make your argument about Hammerfell less or more correct.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
never even countered one of my arguments

'Ulfric didn't aid Hammerfell' - Nenalata argument

Mage Counter: The Journal you mentioned, that says Redguards don't like Ulfric for not aiding them The sleeping bear of Skyrim, who would not come to aid us in Hammerfell, awakens now that the Empire has abandoned them as well.

She is not talking about Ulfric, but the Nords who are now in open rebellion. The Bear which is the sigil they are rallying behind, I know it is somewhat easy to confuse that was being Ulfric himself. But, it simply isn't, she is just talking about the Nords in general who are fighting the Empire.

Ulfric himself, could not have aided Hammerfell.

1) Ulfric was in prison.

2) A Nord militia taking back a city, is hardly an army to fight in a distant province.

3) Supplies needed for this kind of venture... are coming from? Windhelm is going to fund an entire war in another province?

4) The Stormcloaks didn't become who they are now, until only a few months ago in 4E 201. Ulfric didn't have all those supporters, until he killed High King Torygg. So where is he getting these soldiers to attack the Aldmeri Dominion in Hammerfell, twenty years before he even had an army.

5) Don't you think if Ulfric were to simply leave Skyrim to attack the Thalmor, the Imperials bound by treaty who actually dropped Hammerfell because they were fighting the Thalmor, are going to simply not take control of Windhelm? Cut off the entire supply chain, and brand Ulfric and his men criminals in violation of the peace?

Conclusion: Argument countered. ;)
 

imaginepageant

Slytherin Alumni
Why don't you go back to iPag's first post and use arguments to prove her wrong? Why don't you do that instead of saying she's 'a Dagmar who doesn't make any sense'?

I find it especially hilarious that I'm being compared to Dagmar, when I've had several long debates with Dagmar in which I've argued against her.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
I don't see why me not seeing eye to eye is being brought up? This is a debate, if you're on my side, we agree. If you're opposing me, debating against me... I'm obviously not going to agree or see eye to eye with said person.
 

AS88

Well-Known Member
Staff member
When AS88, who is usually neutral in here
I've been so neutral in this, my pH is 7 :rolleyes:

In seriousness though, I've mostly stepped in here every few comments and challenged people one way or the other. This is what you become when you do a law degree. I like to think I made those parts of the thread better as a result, though.

I was about to tell y'all to get back on topic, but DMage has done it for me. (Agree with you on the Ulfric & Hammerfell thing, btw)
 

Recent chat visitors

Latest posts

Top