Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Kraad Vestru]

Not if the Dragonborn wipes out the Dark Brotherhood. Sure, Cicero may still be alive, but he won't do anything without a Listener.
If Babette's still alive (depending on if her absence from the Sanctuary is "canon" or simply to avoid killing a "child"), I have my doubts that she'd ever be given the job to kill the emperor unless she strong-armed someone to get it (and how would she do that if she wasn't ever aware of the contract?). All this assumes, too, that she doesn't just give up on the Dark Brotherhood entirely.

Just because the Dragonborn wipes them out in Skyrim doesn't mean they are gone for good. I highly doubt a group such as the Dark Brotherhood has lost entire chapters before and not fulfilled the outstanding contracts. Otherwise they would not even exist because no one would use them if they let something like the death of most of it's chapter members killed get in the way of it's targets and the Thalmor would profit too much by his death. I see no way Titus Mede II could live out the next few years regardless if the Dragonborn isn't the one that finishes him off or not. Too many people want him dead.

 

[Dagmar]

Just because the Dragonborn wipes them out in Skyrim doesn't mean they are gone for good.

Yes it does. The Falkreath Sanctuary is the last order of the Dark Brotherhood left in Tamriel. It's why Cicero traveled from Cyrodiil with the Night Mother after the Cheydinhal Sanctuary closed. The Cheydinhal Sanctuary closed when the two other remaining members died. Before that the only 2 other Sanctuaries left were alternatively destroyed (the Wayrest Sanctuary in High Rock) or dismantled and consolidated into the Cheydinhal Sanctuary (the Corinthe Sanctuary in Elsweyr). If the Dovahkiin wipes out the Dawnstar Sanctuary order, Babette and Cicero are the only remaining legacies of the Dark Brotherhood in all of Tamriel.

 

[Kraad Vestru]

Babette and Cicero are the only remaining legacies of the Dark Brotherhood in all of Tamriel.

They are still alive so the Dark Brotherhood survives and since one of them is a 300 year old vamp familiar with training. I doubt they will have trouble training new recruits. Because I doubt that Babette is only skilled with alchemy. And Cicero may be a freaking weirdo but he's still a skilled assassin. Besides even if they are killed Sithis will just begin anew with other people. And the Thalmor still would want him dead because of the affect it would have on the Empire. So by the hand of the Dovahkiin, another member of the Dark Brotherhood, or the Thalmor Titus is still dead.

 

[Flint firestorm]

No because they only found out about the contact because they had a listener. Also how do we know that badette even knew Cicero was coming? Besides who would really follow a mad jester and little girl?

 

[Raijin]

No because they only found out about the contact because they had a listener. Also how do we know that badette even knew Cicero was coming? Besides who would really follow a mad jester and little girl?

I would At least they're not afraid to reveal their true form

 

[Templar of Talos]

If skyrim did get it's independence it would have to try to get peace with the empire very fast or risk falling to their larger army's. However if they did get peace maybe they could form some kind of alliance with hammerfall, seeing as they are both single nations and hate the thalmar. That said they would have to put aside the fact that they were once enemies. If skyrim didn't find allies it would be at risk of being annexed by the much bigger argionia.

Haven't you learned ANYTHING from the other posts? SIZE Isn't Everything...

It's not the size of the Army that counts, it's the terrain, the tactical advantages, the weather. The Stormcloaks wont be lining up all their troops to face the Legion as they march into Skyrim, they'll be hit and run attacks, ambushes, traps. They'll use the terrain, leading Imperial and Thalmor Patrols into Giant camps, Bear caves and Troll hunting grounds. Then there's the dragons.

One true life example that goes against everything you're saying is important: Vietnam. Remember that?

 

[Flint firestorm]

Haven't you learned ANYTHING from the other posts? SIZE Isn't Everything...

It's not the size of the Army that counts, it's the terrain, the tactical advantages, the weather. The Stormcloaks wont be lining up all their troops to face the Legion as they march into Skyrim, they'll be hit and run attacks, ambushes, traps. They'll use the terrain, leading Imperial and Thalmor Patrols into Giant camps, Bear caves and Troll hunting grounds. Then there's the dragons.

One true life example that goes against everything you're saying is important: Vietnam. Remember that?

Okay, How come that didn't hinder the thalmar? How come the storm clocks arent already doing that? The empire out numbers them three to one. There are still nords in the imperial army. Besides the reach the south is not that hard to navigate. They could attack from highrock. Nords are completely lacking in magike in there army. You really think that nords are going to bet the argionians in stealth if they attack? The nords now have no one to trade with.

 

[Templar of Talos]

Okay, How come that didn't hinder the thalmar? How come the storm clocks arent already doing that? The empire out numbers them three to one. There are still nords in the imperial army. Besides the reach the south is not that hard to navigate. They could attack from highrock. Nords are completely lacking in magike in there army. You really think that nords are going to bet the argionians in stealth if they attack? The nords now have no one to trade with.

Privateers and Merchant traders would solve the Trade problem, even if the Empire do put a trade embargo on Skyrim, there are plenty of Smugglers willing to trade. Not only that, how many farms are based in Skyrim? Quite a few which solves trhe produce problem, plus the province is teeming with life, so there's plenty of meat.

And who needs Magic? Nords have won wars without Magic for Millenia, they conquered the Falmer with steel and guts, they'll do the same to the Thalmor and the Empire.

The only reason the Thalmor weren't hindered by the Empire is the same reason I have stated in nearly every bloody post I have posted on this thread (did you even bother to read them?)

It's dying, it's weak, it doesn't have a Septim on the throne... It has a Mede, who is just as much as a liability as High King Toyrgg.

 

[Jeremius]

Privateers and Merchant traders would solve the Trade problem, even if the Empire do put a trade embargo on Skyrim, there are plenty of Smugglers willing to trade. Not only that, how many farms are based in Skyrim? Quite a few which solves trhe produce problem, plus the province is teeming with life, so there's plenty of meat.

And who needs Magic? Nords have won wars without Magic for Millenia, they conquered the Falmer with steel and guts, they'll do the same to the Thalmor and the Empire.

The only reason the Thalmor weren't hindered by the Empire is the same reason I have stated in nearly every bloody post I have posted on this thread (did you even bother to read them?)

It's dying, it's weak, it doesn't have a Septim on the throne... It has a Mede, who is just as much as a liability as High King Toyrgg.

if that is the case then Torygg should have been allowed to live and Ulfric gunning for emperor. But Ulfric is a bully who picks on the weak because it is fun.

 

[The Gray Fox]

And why should I pick one over the other? So far neither have shown me that one is better or worse than the other, they both have their bad and good qualities. Many say Stormcloaks because the name sounds cool, but I want to side for a reason, not the name.

I'm a male Khajiit (Destruction mage)

Please help me D:

EDIT: I really want to keep being a mage so does one of them have classes or can I just stay been a mage.

I only started playing 4 days ago and i have never played any other TES.

well since the imperials tried to cut my damn head off......I went with the stormcloaks

 

[The Gray Fox]

if that is the case then Torygg should have been allowed to live and Ulfric gunning for emperor. But Ulfric is a bully who picks on the weak because it is fun.

I agree that Ulfric isnt a good leader. I believe that tamriel needs Talos back. he is the greatest. and Ulfric challenged torygg Fair and square. the dude getting executed tells you that and Im pretty sure his wife or some servant said that too.

 

[Raijin]

if that is the case then Torygg should have been allowed to live and Ulfric gunning for emperor. But Ulfric is a bully who picks on the weak because it is fun.

So you think Ulfric is a bully eh? What do you think about the Orc culture? You said it yourself. King Torygg is weak therefor he should've NEVER became High King. Skyrim is only strong if it has a strong High King/Queen. Torygg was letting Skyrim down by continuing to be the empires puppet.

No Ulfric wasn't picking on Torygg for the fun of it. He strives to make his home country strong again, to be rid of the empires wrath.

Ulfric doesn't want any part of the empire so why should he be gunning for emperor status when he only cares for his homeland, Skyrim?

 

[Jeremius]

yet, Raijin and grey fox, where is the law saying that Duels are okay to do for Nobility if the high king is weak? do not say Tadition, i mean the imperial law. i do not know every imperial law but i did not see anything saying that Duels outside sanctioned areas (war, the arena, etc.) is allowed. point out one thing that says it is okay in the EMPIRE, which is ruling Skyrim at this point, not the high king, allows it then i will say that Ulfric was in the right.

 

[Templar of Talos]

if that is the case then Torygg should have been allowed to live and Ulfric gunning for emperor. But Ulfric is a bully who picks on the weak because it is fun.

I don't deny it, Ulfric is an arse I've said that many times.

I think that Vignarr Grey-Mane should be Mooted in, he'd be a good High King. Better than Ulfric ever would be.

 

[Flint firestorm]

The only reason the thalmar didn't conquere the empire is because it was united. The empire kept the thalmar army's out of skyrim. Also ulfric wants to lead skyrim(one nation) against the aldmerei dominion(three nations).do the math. And even if by some miracle they win and the dominion is destroyed, ask yourself What will ulfric do then? Do you think he would stop there? Would he make a new empire? And what happens to the defeated races? What would ulfric do to them?

 

[Raijin]

yet, Raijin and grey fox, where is the law saying that Duels are okay to do for Nobility if the high king is weak? do not say Tadition, i mean the imperial law. i do not know every imperial law but i did not see anything saying that Duels outside sanctioned areas (war, the arena, etc.) is allowed. point out one thing that says it is okay in the EMPIRE, which is ruling Skyrim at this point, not the high king, allows it then i will say that Ulfric was in the right.

Are you serious? Ulfric came right up to King Toyrgg and challenge him to a duel and he accepted therefor Toyrgg knew that the fight to the death was in legal standards otherwise he would've objected. The fact to the matter is if Toyrgg didn't accepted his challenge Ulfric had a legit claim to recall Toygg and remove him from the throne so I do give Toyrgg kudo's for at least going down with a fight.

No law was broken. The only reason why General Tullius and the imperial legion came to Skyrim is because they don't know a damn thing about the Nordric tradition. They accused Ulfric of high treason for "supposedly" murdering the High King. This is why Ulfric wants Skyrim to be free from the imperial shackles. Skyrim is Nord land and the nords should have the right to run it anyway they want without getting hammered by a weaken empire that can't even defend themselves against the Thalmor.

 

[Raijin]

I don't deny it, Ulfric is an arse I've said that many times.

I think that Vignarr Grey-Mane should be Mooted in, he'd be a good High King. Better than Ulfric ever would be.

Ulfric might be an ass but hes the ass that I support for High King because hes doing something about it. Although I like Vingar hes not doing a damn thing, Ulfric is. If it wasn't for Ulfric he would've never been appointed as Jarl of whiterun. Actions speaks for it's self.

 

[Flint firestorm]

I don't deny it, Ulfric is an arse I've said that many times.

I think that Vignarr Grey-Mane should be Mooted in, he'd be a good High King. Better than Ulfric ever would be.

No balgruuf would be far better. Or maybe an older thorygg.

Wait wait. Ive got it. It is so clear now. The high king should be...PAARTURNAX!!!!!

 

[Templar of Talos]

The only reason the thalmar didn't conquere the empire is because it was united. The empire kept the thalmar army's out of skyrim. Also ulfric wants to lead skyrim(one nation) against the aldmerei dominion(three nations).do the math. And even if by some miracle they win and the dominion is destroyed, ask yourself What will ulfric do then? Do you think he would stop there? Would he make a new empire? And what happens to the defeated races? What would ulfric do to them?

The ThalmOr didn't conquer the Empire because it had beaten it into submission and keeping it alive (barley) suited it. Not because it was united. If it were truly united like it was during the third era, it would have torn the Aldmeri Dominion asunder and pissed on it's ashes.

And not if but WHEN Skyrim beats the Thalmor, They may build a new Empire, who's to know? And as for the Altmer? Who cares, the smart ones will be fighting against the Thalmor, perhaps they will rebuild Summerset Isles and realise they aren't all powerful. They may even be liked in the next era. Who knows?

No balgruuf would be far better. Or maybe an older thorygg.

Wait wait. Ive got it. It is so clear now. The high king should be...PAARTURNAX!!!!!

I do agree about Balgruff being a better King, an Older Toyrrg may have beaten Ulfric, but if he were older, I suspect Skyrim wouldn't have the troubles that caused the Civil War in the first place.

Paarthunaxx as High King... yeah, that could actually work

 

[Dagmar]

They are still alive so the Dark Brotherhood survives and since one of them is a 300 year old vamp familiar with training. I doubt they will have trouble training new recruits...

If you wipe out the Dark Brotherhood Cicero never stays in Skyrim and it's not even clear that Babette ever existed if you take that path. One possible explanation is that she is in Vvardenfell carrying out a House Redoran contract that she alludes to in her introductory dialogue in the Falkreath Sanctuary, but even if she actually does exist neither of them knows of the other's existence. Cicero will not carry out any conracts because there is no Listener to provide them. With no Night Mother, Listener or Astrid, Babette's allegiance to the Dark Brotherhood dies with Falkreath Sanctuary.

Besides even if they are killed Sithis will just begin anew with other people.

The Dark Brotherhood wasn't created by Sithis. It adopted Sithis as a patron god afterwards. Sithis, being what he is, is fairly indifferent to the fate of the Dark Brotherhood.