Ulfric is not the true High king

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

The snow tower is not Skyrim as a province, and the throat of the world does not actually have a king, so that makes no real logical sense.

The true Snow Tower is actually a metaphysical concept, though the mountain might be considered a physical echo.As the prophecy suggests, the Snow Tower is better understood as a joke.

fixed.

Or it could be written, "When the Thalmor trick the Nordic people into becoming split, kingless and warring with themselves to keep them from the next Great War because the Thalmor are afraid o fa united humanity."

 

[DrunkenMage]

As the prophecy suggests, the Snow Tower is better understood as a joke.

fixed.

I am done with you. There is no use in actually trying to explain something to you, since you are incapable of understanding.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

As the prophecy suggests, the Snow Tower is better understood as a joke.

fixed.

I am done with you. There is no use in actually trying to explain something to you, since you are incapable of understanding.

I am trying to understand, but only see the Thalmor as the start of all of it, and thus Ulfric is not truly to blame like you want him to be.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I am trying to understand, but only see the Thalmor as the start of all of it, and thus Ulfric is not truly to blame like you want him to be.

Started long before the Thalmor, the Thalmor caused the second last part of the prophecy, Ulfric finished it. I'm blaming the completion on Ulfric which... surprise! Was actually was due to Ulfric's actions.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I am trying to understand, but only see the Thalmor as the start of all of it, and thus Ulfric is not truly to blame like you want him to be.

Started long before the Thalmor, the Thalmor caused the second last part of the prophecy, Ulfric finished it. I'm blaming the completion on Ulfric which... surprise! Was actually was due to Ulfric's actions.

and he likely would not have done so if the Thalmor did not convince the Emperor to ban Talos Worship. OR this would have happened with someone else. The prophecy has nothing to do with ulfric. you are just looking for someone to blame in order to sate your ego.

 

[DrunkenMage]

and he likely would not have done so if the Thalmor did not convince the Emperor to ban Talos Worship. OR this would have happened with someone else. The prophecy has nothing to do with ulfric. you are just looking for someone to blame in order to sate your ego.

The completion is due to Ulfric. What part of that aren't you understanding, it isn't about ego. The fact you believe this is about my own ego, is stupid. Laughable and something that someone would say when they're unwilling to even acknowledge lore, which you do all the bloody time.

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world​

Imperial Simulacrum & Staff of Chaos​

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped​

Numidium & Warp in the West​

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles​

Tribunal & Red Year​

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls​

Septim Dynasty & Oblivion Crisis & Great War​

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding​

Throat of the World/Nordic people & Ulfric killing the High King causing the Stormcloak rebellion.​

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.​

Alduin & Aurbis & The player's character.​

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

and he likely would not have done so if the Thalmor did not convince the Emperor to ban Talos Worship. OR this would have happened with someone else. The prophecy has nothing to do with ulfric. you are just looking for someone to blame in order to sate your ego.

The completion is due to Ulfric. What part of that aren't you understanding, it isn't about ego. The fact you believe this is about my own ego, is stupid. Laughable and something that someone would say when they're unwilling to even acknowledge lore, which you do all the bloody time.

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world
Imperial Simulacrum & Staff of Chaos
When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped
Numidium & Warp in the West
When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles
Tribunal & Red Year
When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls
Septim Dynasty & Oblivion Crisis & Great War
When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding
Throat of the World/Nordic people & Ulfric killing the High King causing the Stormcloak rebellion.
The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.
Alduin & Aurbis & The player's character.

Huh? I just thought that was a series of random events put together to make a story? IS that what a "prophecy" is? A series of random events "predicted" or put together just because?

I personally feel that the Alduin "prophecy" is little more than a series of random events that loosely fit together.

 

[DrunkenMage]

OR this would have happened with someone else.

This is the most amazing logic, amazed it isn't valid in court.
"I should go free, if I didn't murder him, someone else could of"

Huh? I just thought that was a series of random events put together to make a story? IS that what a "prophecy" is? A series of random events "predicted" or put together just because?

... You surprise me more and more each day, just when I think I've seen the most ignorant thing on these forums. Bam a new post by Jeremy shocks me once more. Why on earth do you even debate in these topics? You just ignore everything and basically RP a completely different game.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

OR this would have happened with someone else.

This is the most amazing logic, amazed it isn't valid in court.
"I should go free, if I didn't murder him, someone else could of"

Huh? I just thought that was a series of random events put together to make a story? IS that what a "prophecy" is? A series of random events "predicted" or put together just because?

... You surprise me more and more each day, just when I think I've seen the most ignorant thing on these forums. Bam a new post by Jeremy shocks me once more. Why on earth do you even debate in these topics? You just ignore everything and basically RP a completely different game.

When it comes down to it I do not "just" blame Ulfric, but the other people I mentioned as well. Simple as that, as they all had a hand to play in the "prophecy" of Alduin's appearance during the Skyrim Civil War:

Ancients-They sent Alduin forward in time in the first place, idiots. They were the voice

Thalmor-It was their "Treaty" with the Empire that led Ulfric and the Stormcloaks to rebellion in the first place, the daedra in disguise. these guys were the catalyst of it all.

Ulfric-His actions make him seem like a desperate warmonger, he was sword of it.

 

[DrunkenMage]

When it comes down to it I do not "just" blame Ulfric, but the other people I mentioned as well. Simple as that, as they all had a hand to play in the "prophecy" of Alduin's appearance during the Skyrim Civil War.

So Ulfric wasn't acting for himself and the Thalmor tricked him, did you say before?

So what is it? Did Ulfric do it by himself, thinking clearly. Or is he a Thalmor brainwashed experiment?

Is Ulfric a Nord fighting for what he believes and acting, thinking with his own thoughts. Or are you trying to tell us, that Ulfric is nothing more than a Thalmor brainwashed tool allowed to escape and do what they wanted.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

When it comes down to it I do not "just" blame Ulfric, but the other people I mentioned as well. Simple as that, as they all had a hand to play in the "prophecy" of Alduin's appearance during the Skyrim Civil War.

So Ulfric wasn't acting for himself and the Thalmor tricked him did you say before?

So what is it? Did Ulfric do it by himself, thinking clearly. Or is he a Thalmor brainwashed experiment?

read the edit. Everyone I mentioned had a hand to play, so it does not really matter what Ulfric was thinking, clearly or not. HE does not hold all the blame in my eyes.

 

[DrunkenMage]

read the edit. Everyone I mentioned had a hand to play, so it does not really matter what Ulfric was thinking, clearly or not. HE does not hold all the blame in my eyes.

No one said he had all the blame. I said he is to blame for the completion of the prophecy. There was a lot involved in the prophecy, Ulfric completed it. He was the ending. Thus I blame Ulfric for fulfilling it.

No point going "But, but the ancient Nords" they didn't kill High King Torygg. Or going "But the Thalmor" They didn't kill High King Torygg and there is certainly no use in going "but the Emperor" because he did not kill Torygg.

Ulfric killed High King Torygg. He completed the last piece, thus is to blame for finishing the prophecy. Which I have been saying for sometime now.

 

[Zokeyr]

If Ulfric isn't High King then who is?

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[Jurgarik Greycloak]

read the edit. Everyone I mentioned had a hand to play, so it does not really matter what Ulfric was thinking, clearly or not. HE does not hold all the blame in my eyes.

No one said he had all the blame. I said he is to blame for the completion of the prophecy. There was a lot involved in the prophecy, Ulfric completed it. He was the ending. Thus I blame Ulfric for fulfilling it.

No point going "But, but the ancient Nords" they didn't kill High King Torygg. Or going "But the Thalmor" They didn't kill High King Torygg and there is certainly no use in going "but the Emperor" because he did not kill Torygg.

Ulfric killed High King Torygg. He completed the last piece, thus is to blame for finishing the prophecy. Which I have been saying for sometime now.

The Torygg thing, as I have said, might not have happened without the Thalmor. Quit making it like it would have happened that way without the ban on Talos making Ulfric think that the Empire has lost its right to have control of Skyrim, or any other province for that matter.

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Torygg thing, as I have said, might not have happened without the Thalmor. Quit making it like it would have happened that way without the ban on Talos making Ulfric think that the Empire has lost its right to have control of Skyrim, or any other province for that matter.

Ban on Talos was in effect for twenty six years. Ulfric killed Torygg because he knew he could. He wasn't honorable enough to face High King Istlod who accepted the WGC for Skyrim, but was able to kill the young Torygg for something he had no part in.

Fact remains, Ulfric still did it. Ulfric finished the prophecy, it doesn't matter about all the "Thalmor tricked him" and "Hey may not of done it." He did it, fairly simple. Doesn't matter why he did it, he still did it. Doesn't somehow excuse him from fulfilling the prophecy, he can't exactly go "Hey, Alduin. Umm, do you mind going away again? Cause I wasn't fulfilling the prophecy, I only did it cause someone else may of done it, or cause the Empire did this nearly three decades ago. So can you kind of just ignore me completing the prophecy, we just call it a test to see if it was real."

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

The Torygg thing, as I have said, might not have happened without the Thalmor. Quit making it like it would have happened that way without the ban on Talos making Ulfric think that the Empire has lost its right to have control of Skyrim, or any other province for that matter.

Ban on Talos was in effect for twenty six years. Ulfric killed Torygg because he knew he could. He wasn't honorable enough to face High King Istlod who accepted the WGC for Skyrim, but was able to kill the young Torygg for something he had no part in.

Fact remains, Ulfric still did it. Ulfric finished the prophecy, it doesn't matter about all the "Thalmor tricked him" and "Hey may not of done it." He did it, fairly simple. Doesn't matter why he did it, he still did it. Doesn't somehow excuse him from fulfilling the prophecy, he can't exactly go "Hey, Alduin. Umm, do you mind going away again? Cause I wasn't fulfilling the prophecy, I only did it cause someone else may of done it, or cause the Empire did this nearly three decades ago. So can you kind of just ignore me completing the prophecy, we just call it a test to see if it was real."

Was Ulfric Jarl at the time of Istlod? If not, he had no way to do so.

He finished the Prophecy, but likely did not know nor did so on his own or without cause to do so. simply put, it was just plain old coincidence, not fulfilling any prophecy or none of that religious garbage.

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

If Ulfric isn't High King then who is?

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HE is not the true High King, but a candidate. That is all.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Was Ulfric Jarl at the time of Istlod? If not, he had no way to do so.

He finished the Prophecy, but likely did not know nor did so on his own or without cause to do so. simply put, it was just plain old coincidence, not fulfilling any prophecy or none of that religious garbage.

He seemed to have been Jarl for a few years during Istlod's reign, due to the Stormcloaks having skirmishes for years and Torygg only recently being High King.

 

[Hildolfr]

I feel like you guys are arguing over what a prophecy is. A prophecy is simply foreshadowing. Like in Macbeth where he couldn't be killed from a man born of woman. Hence, he was killed by a man who had been birthed via a cesarean section. The idea is that it was destined to happen because it was foretold.

My question is, was Ulfric aware of the prophecy?

 

[Jurgarik Greycloak]

I feel like you guys are arguing over what a prophecy is. A prophecy is simply foreshadowing. Like in Macbeth where he couldn't be killed from a man born of woman. Hence, he was killed by a man who had been birthed via a cesarean section. The idea is that it was destined to happen because it was foretold.

My question is, was Ulfric aware of the prophecy?

the problem is that Alduin was sent forward in time, an event that could have dumped him anywhere. I fail to see how his ending up in a time where Skyrim is in Civil War because of Ulfric is Ulfric's fault or any prophecy being completed.