Serebro Moniker
He who moves it moves it
If attacked, the Greybeards would absolutely fight back. Just try to kill one, just try.
Now that Ulfric is High King of Skyrim...?
- Thread starter ConfusedPenguin
- Start date
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
Obviously, They got a big-ass Talos Shrine right outside their door!
Don't worry, If I was Ulfric, I would team up with Hammerfell or unite all of Skyrim under my banner and get rid of those elves.!
But they don't stand a chance! I got Odahviing to take care of them!
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
You forgot the Draugr, I saw a couple of 'em getting beaten up by some of those mudcrabs
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
Two Flaws
1. Ulfric would never give up a city of Skyrim. If they refuse, he invades
2. The High elves would never go down that easily, unless this war goes on for a couple hundred years!
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
Actually it does have an effect acting as an advantage to the Thalmor.
Stormcloak or Imperial, both sides will be exhausted after the war and if the Thalmor strike exactly after the civil war ends, Skyrim is finished
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
Console comands?! I knew it!
Of course Skyrim would survive, Balgruuf said himself, "The Empire's north border will be guarded by the most fiercest warriors in all of Tamriel"
I felt bad when I had to banish him.
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
I was almost executed and survived thanks to Uncle Aldu
I met a Jarl and cleared a burial tomb
I killed a Dragon
Cleared another Burial Tomb
I killed a Dragon again
I infiltrated the Thalmor Embassy
I fought through the Forsworn to get to an ancient headquarters
I found out I had another Uncle named Uncle Parthy and he said Uncle Aldu was evil
I went into a Dwarven ruin and got this weird scroll and almost got killed by weird elves
I saw the past
I almost killed Uncle Aldu
I trapped a dragon and became friends, even on Facebook
I went to heaven and killed Uncle Aldu and returned
In the end
NOBODY GAVE A plops!
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
Dude, the Dragonborn took arrows to more then just the knee! Eyes! Belly! Breast! Even in the epiglottis and You Know Where! It is okay to over-estimate him!
There are two Altmer in Windhelm I know of.
Maybe we can ask Odahviing to ask his dragon friends to team up with him. He was Alduins 2nd in command so he must be feared!
Templar of Talos
Bane of Elves and Vampires
The butterflies of Skyrim would make mince meat out of those Thalmor ponces, not to mention the Torchbugs.
Oh, and Giants. The way those fella's hit, you'll be seeing Thalmor being knocked back to Summerset Isle's
Oh, and Giants. The way those fella's hit, you'll be seeing Thalmor being knocked back to Summerset Isle's
Will Olmen
Member
I joined just to throw in my two cents to this discussion. Though it seems to have tapered off some.
Anyway, in the event Ulfric wins here's how I see things progressing:
Ulfric tends to put people into power that have a very pro-nord agenda. They may not be openly racist all the time but any non-nord that isn't interested in devoting themselves to directly supporting a free skyrim is looked on with some suspicion. At least in the primary stormcloak territories. That said, Ulfric's chosen Jarls will probably put into play some pro-nord practices that directly or indirectly discriminate others. It could easily turn into a very bad situating for any remaining Altmer and Bosmer. BUT, while things could get harder for the mer in Skyrim, the nords have a broad feeling of bonding with ANYONE that is willing to give of themselves for the good of the hold. The general population of Skyrim would still see Bosmer, Dunmer and even Altmer as powerful allies, capable craftsmen and useful members of the civilization. The reason the Dunmer are treated like crap in Windhelm is because they have decided as a GROUP of people to specifically NOT sign up for the war. Which in the capital of a rebellion could be looked at poorly. But you'll notice they've been given an entire, albeit crappy, district of the city for the refugees and families of refugees to take as their own. Ulfric may be a pro-nord spouting jerk sometimes, but he's obviously humane enough to bring in, house and feed those who fled Morrowind. So with civil unrest not being nearly the issue people assume, Skyrim is a place full of near fanatical, very large and very strong men and women that will fight to the death for their homes in a land that has no pity on the unprepared or ignorant. Let it not be ignored that it was a force of NORDS that cut through the majority of the Thalmor armies in Cyrodiil and gave the Emperor's forces an almost unopposed marched onto the Imperial City. I doubt the Thalmor are in a position to contend with that after the war. People seem to forget they suffered significantly in the war themselves. The only thing that could weaken Skyrim is further, racially inclined, in-fighting.
Now, that said, it should be noted that Bosmer are not usually looked at with suspicion. For several reasons. 1. The majority of Bosmer are actually still very anti-thalmor. If you read the histories behind the Great War a huge portion of the military in Valenwood went AGAINST the coup and left WITH the imperial legions when Valenwood became a part of the Dominion. They fought on the Empire's side during the war. And to the present lore Thalmor still carries out 'cleansings' in Valenwood. Essentially they drag out and murder a couple hundred Bosmer every once in awhile to terrify the populace into obedience while the Valenwood upper echelon get rich from more or less consigning their people into a loose variety of slavery. The Altmer treat Bosmer like second class citizens. This leads me to believe that in the event of a freed Skyrim we could potentially see an event like when the Colonies revolted against England. The Americas did it. And this inspire India to do the same. And that went like falling dominoes until the United Kingdom was barely fit for the word Empire. If Skyrim can break away from Cyrodiil it could potentially inspire the crazy capable archers of Valenwood to use those skills of theirs and begin a geurilla war that would make the Redguards look like amateurs.
Now Elsweyr is a different story. They are 'client states'. What this means is they are not TRULY a part of the dominion. Their government was formed under Aldmeri observation. In return for the funding, knowledge and magics needed to build and progress a government in years rather than decades the Khajiit are taxed with heavy levies and debt. And in order to pay it off the majority of the population are forced to work entirely for the benefit of the Dominion. Again the PEOPLE of the lands are not benefiting from Dominion rule. Just the ruling class. So here we could easily see more sparks of dissent. After all, Khajiit have already begun to move out of their homelands to seek profitable opportunities elsewhere. I doubt they are limited to Skyrim. And I doubt it is solely merchants and their para-military escorts. If the Dominion pressured any harder for resources to prepare themselves for a war, thinking along the lines of them attempting an invasion of Skyrim, they could easily have a full scale rebellion. Khajiit government isn't exactly the anchor of their civilization anyway. Those in power could find themselves in giant pillowcases being drowned in the rivers.
The Argonians won't fight for the Thalmor. Zero reason to. They split from the Empire because the An-Xiheel took advantage of the chaos following the last Septim's death and the void of an emperor after the Oblivion Crisis to basically seize power and declare Argonia an independent state. But in that same consideration the An-Xiheel have no real interest in sharing power at all. The Dominion could ask. But they'd just as likely be eaten.
The Dominion presents itself as a significant power because it HAS to. They're basically persia. There's a core of strong, talented mages and warriors that are as fearsome as anyone with a millenia to learn combat can be. But the bulk of their forces after the Battle of the Red Ring was lost. They are bolstered by indentured and forcibly conscripted soldiers from races they view as inferior. Who they would not train and equip to full ability and rather use as fodder to break themselves on imperial shields time and again to wear the Empire down. Does this mean they're too weak to be a threat? No. But invading Skyrim would put them in a losing position. There's no approach they could take that would work. Invade from the northern sealine? Doubt that would work. Solitude would be the first approach and it's insanely defensible. The smaller holds like Dawnstar and Winterhold could be taken but the surrounding terrain would be a playground to a unified force trained and bolstered by Stormcloak soldiers with more resources and fresh from a rebellion that utilized a lot of hit and run tactics. Then march an army through those mountains? Cold alone would be an enemy. Between freezing to death, boulder attacks and ambushing archers the Thalmor could make it into the next bio-region with maybe two thirds of their forces. Then come the ambush ready marshes. Only on the open grounds of the central tundra would they meet the Nords in open combat. Half frozen, beaten down by repeated and relentless geurilla attacks, relying on an almost certainly depleted supply line that could not possibly be kept with the ridiculously long boat journey from home to their 'foothold' in a constantly shifting sea of glaciers and inescapable freezing winds... no. The Thalmor would be massacred. The Nords might pay for their victory in a very bloody way. But realistically no army on foot could secure a victory in those circumstances. And any attempts to siege Solitude or Windhelm without further advance to the south would result in similar losses. The benefit to independent city-states maintaining their own private armies but unified under a single banner is the ability to mobilize considerable forces from the various holds to attack from varying angles on short notice. The Imperial military doctrine retains a strong army but it tends to stay centralized. Leaving smaller garrisons in charge of individual defenses from place to place and forcing them to focus attacks on one or two areas of conflict at a time. Skyrim's situation would not be limited by this.
All of that taken into consideration there is one last thing to say. A UNIFIED Empire is the Thalmor's biggest threat. Because the Dominion recognizes that while the Empire may have fewer people to field, they will field trained and capable soldiers. Equipped to the limit of a still very resourceful Empire and disciplined to give 110%. The Dominion's core forces would be equally so, but without the benefit of surprise and forced to utilize a primarily unwilling populace to bolster their numbers with threats and bullying the Aldmeri can see and realize that if Skyrim were to settle back under Imperial rule and the recruiting and training of nords and the abundant resources of the land were to become steady throughout the Empire once again the Dominion would no longer be in a position to be on the offensive in a future struggle. Given time their position would weaken and the Empire's would strengthen. And sooner or later it would be a rebellious Valenwood and Elsweyr, aided by the reformed Imperial army that eradicated the dominion. And a vengeful collection of newly unified races, appreciative of the Empire's actions in liberating their homelands, that sailed into the Summerset Isles and burned any traces of the Dominion from the face of the world.
So while Skyrim could almost certainly defend itself from the Dominion, I'm the Empire's man all the way. A free Skyrim is good for SOME Nords who wish to openly worship Talos. A unified Empire is good for TAMRIEL.
Anyway, in the event Ulfric wins here's how I see things progressing:
Ulfric tends to put people into power that have a very pro-nord agenda. They may not be openly racist all the time but any non-nord that isn't interested in devoting themselves to directly supporting a free skyrim is looked on with some suspicion. At least in the primary stormcloak territories. That said, Ulfric's chosen Jarls will probably put into play some pro-nord practices that directly or indirectly discriminate others. It could easily turn into a very bad situating for any remaining Altmer and Bosmer. BUT, while things could get harder for the mer in Skyrim, the nords have a broad feeling of bonding with ANYONE that is willing to give of themselves for the good of the hold. The general population of Skyrim would still see Bosmer, Dunmer and even Altmer as powerful allies, capable craftsmen and useful members of the civilization. The reason the Dunmer are treated like crap in Windhelm is because they have decided as a GROUP of people to specifically NOT sign up for the war. Which in the capital of a rebellion could be looked at poorly. But you'll notice they've been given an entire, albeit crappy, district of the city for the refugees and families of refugees to take as their own. Ulfric may be a pro-nord spouting jerk sometimes, but he's obviously humane enough to bring in, house and feed those who fled Morrowind. So with civil unrest not being nearly the issue people assume, Skyrim is a place full of near fanatical, very large and very strong men and women that will fight to the death for their homes in a land that has no pity on the unprepared or ignorant. Let it not be ignored that it was a force of NORDS that cut through the majority of the Thalmor armies in Cyrodiil and gave the Emperor's forces an almost unopposed marched onto the Imperial City. I doubt the Thalmor are in a position to contend with that after the war. People seem to forget they suffered significantly in the war themselves. The only thing that could weaken Skyrim is further, racially inclined, in-fighting.
Now, that said, it should be noted that Bosmer are not usually looked at with suspicion. For several reasons. 1. The majority of Bosmer are actually still very anti-thalmor. If you read the histories behind the Great War a huge portion of the military in Valenwood went AGAINST the coup and left WITH the imperial legions when Valenwood became a part of the Dominion. They fought on the Empire's side during the war. And to the present lore Thalmor still carries out 'cleansings' in Valenwood. Essentially they drag out and murder a couple hundred Bosmer every once in awhile to terrify the populace into obedience while the Valenwood upper echelon get rich from more or less consigning their people into a loose variety of slavery. The Altmer treat Bosmer like second class citizens. This leads me to believe that in the event of a freed Skyrim we could potentially see an event like when the Colonies revolted against England. The Americas did it. And this inspire India to do the same. And that went like falling dominoes until the United Kingdom was barely fit for the word Empire. If Skyrim can break away from Cyrodiil it could potentially inspire the crazy capable archers of Valenwood to use those skills of theirs and begin a geurilla war that would make the Redguards look like amateurs.
Now Elsweyr is a different story. They are 'client states'. What this means is they are not TRULY a part of the dominion. Their government was formed under Aldmeri observation. In return for the funding, knowledge and magics needed to build and progress a government in years rather than decades the Khajiit are taxed with heavy levies and debt. And in order to pay it off the majority of the population are forced to work entirely for the benefit of the Dominion. Again the PEOPLE of the lands are not benefiting from Dominion rule. Just the ruling class. So here we could easily see more sparks of dissent. After all, Khajiit have already begun to move out of their homelands to seek profitable opportunities elsewhere. I doubt they are limited to Skyrim. And I doubt it is solely merchants and their para-military escorts. If the Dominion pressured any harder for resources to prepare themselves for a war, thinking along the lines of them attempting an invasion of Skyrim, they could easily have a full scale rebellion. Khajiit government isn't exactly the anchor of their civilization anyway. Those in power could find themselves in giant pillowcases being drowned in the rivers.
The Argonians won't fight for the Thalmor. Zero reason to. They split from the Empire because the An-Xiheel took advantage of the chaos following the last Septim's death and the void of an emperor after the Oblivion Crisis to basically seize power and declare Argonia an independent state. But in that same consideration the An-Xiheel have no real interest in sharing power at all. The Dominion could ask. But they'd just as likely be eaten.
The Dominion presents itself as a significant power because it HAS to. They're basically persia. There's a core of strong, talented mages and warriors that are as fearsome as anyone with a millenia to learn combat can be. But the bulk of their forces after the Battle of the Red Ring was lost. They are bolstered by indentured and forcibly conscripted soldiers from races they view as inferior. Who they would not train and equip to full ability and rather use as fodder to break themselves on imperial shields time and again to wear the Empire down. Does this mean they're too weak to be a threat? No. But invading Skyrim would put them in a losing position. There's no approach they could take that would work. Invade from the northern sealine? Doubt that would work. Solitude would be the first approach and it's insanely defensible. The smaller holds like Dawnstar and Winterhold could be taken but the surrounding terrain would be a playground to a unified force trained and bolstered by Stormcloak soldiers with more resources and fresh from a rebellion that utilized a lot of hit and run tactics. Then march an army through those mountains? Cold alone would be an enemy. Between freezing to death, boulder attacks and ambushing archers the Thalmor could make it into the next bio-region with maybe two thirds of their forces. Then come the ambush ready marshes. Only on the open grounds of the central tundra would they meet the Nords in open combat. Half frozen, beaten down by repeated and relentless geurilla attacks, relying on an almost certainly depleted supply line that could not possibly be kept with the ridiculously long boat journey from home to their 'foothold' in a constantly shifting sea of glaciers and inescapable freezing winds... no. The Thalmor would be massacred. The Nords might pay for their victory in a very bloody way. But realistically no army on foot could secure a victory in those circumstances. And any attempts to siege Solitude or Windhelm without further advance to the south would result in similar losses. The benefit to independent city-states maintaining their own private armies but unified under a single banner is the ability to mobilize considerable forces from the various holds to attack from varying angles on short notice. The Imperial military doctrine retains a strong army but it tends to stay centralized. Leaving smaller garrisons in charge of individual defenses from place to place and forcing them to focus attacks on one or two areas of conflict at a time. Skyrim's situation would not be limited by this.
All of that taken into consideration there is one last thing to say. A UNIFIED Empire is the Thalmor's biggest threat. Because the Dominion recognizes that while the Empire may have fewer people to field, they will field trained and capable soldiers. Equipped to the limit of a still very resourceful Empire and disciplined to give 110%. The Dominion's core forces would be equally so, but without the benefit of surprise and forced to utilize a primarily unwilling populace to bolster their numbers with threats and bullying the Aldmeri can see and realize that if Skyrim were to settle back under Imperial rule and the recruiting and training of nords and the abundant resources of the land were to become steady throughout the Empire once again the Dominion would no longer be in a position to be on the offensive in a future struggle. Given time their position would weaken and the Empire's would strengthen. And sooner or later it would be a rebellious Valenwood and Elsweyr, aided by the reformed Imperial army that eradicated the dominion. And a vengeful collection of newly unified races, appreciative of the Empire's actions in liberating their homelands, that sailed into the Summerset Isles and burned any traces of the Dominion from the face of the world.
So while Skyrim could almost certainly defend itself from the Dominion, I'm the Empire's man all the way. A free Skyrim is good for SOME Nords who wish to openly worship Talos. A unified Empire is good for TAMRIEL.
Mr1cammando
asdf
HOLYplopsTHATSALOTOFTEXTASDASDADSASD.
Ahem. Most of this discussion relies on Ulfric winning. Now, we know that this is a very unlikely prospect. His army is made up of volenteers, who have a strong will and are somewhat diverse in weaponry, a standardized army works better. The empire's superior military, containing the Legion and presumable a navy of some sort. The Stormcloaks have only what they can find and make. They have nothing but what is front of them. At best, they have a small army of foot soldiers and a few merchant vessals.
With this information, we know that Nords are small-minded, for lack of a better word, people. They shun Elves of all kinds and have a general distrust of magic. Their opinions alone have already severed one portion of a potential fighting force. While have consistency is important, it is also important to be prepared. Having mages would be a good step up.
However, should Ulfric somehow win this pointless war, what would he do? What could he do? Now, instead of the Ulfric victory scenarios I've read, the Empire would most likely lead a massive strike against the new State of Skyrim. The Stormies, whose small army is almost completely depleted can simply not defend against such a strike. What many Ulfric supporters forget is that the Empire has resorces outside of Skyrim, give them entry points all over the provence.
However, this is the point that the Dominion would strike. We all new this would happen. Ulfric's rebellion weakened Skyrim so much, that an entirely new army could take it. This is the part where anything could happen. Now, at this point we have a nearly destroyed Stormcloak army, and invading imperial army, and the supperior Aldermi Soldiers. The Stormcloaks would be destroyed, completely. The Dominion and Empire would both take heavy damage. The Dominion however would be in a bad spot even if they won this battle. The local Nords have serious problems with the elves. They would likely be fought out, or at least heavily resisted.
If the Empire were to win against to Dominion, the Great War is back on. However, the Empire is united again with Skyrim. The Nords will not take cause as much resistence towards the Empire, whom they had been a part of for years. The Redguards may or may not join back, but this is a problem for after the Great War II. The Nords now have a new chance to fight what they hate. The true enemy for them and for human kind is the Dominion.
tl;dr : Ulfric could not win, and if he did, the Empire is finished. If the Empire wins, they still have a chance.
Ahem. Most of this discussion relies on Ulfric winning. Now, we know that this is a very unlikely prospect. His army is made up of volenteers, who have a strong will and are somewhat diverse in weaponry, a standardized army works better. The empire's superior military, containing the Legion and presumable a navy of some sort. The Stormcloaks have only what they can find and make. They have nothing but what is front of them. At best, they have a small army of foot soldiers and a few merchant vessals.
With this information, we know that Nords are small-minded, for lack of a better word, people. They shun Elves of all kinds and have a general distrust of magic. Their opinions alone have already severed one portion of a potential fighting force. While have consistency is important, it is also important to be prepared. Having mages would be a good step up.
However, should Ulfric somehow win this pointless war, what would he do? What could he do? Now, instead of the Ulfric victory scenarios I've read, the Empire would most likely lead a massive strike against the new State of Skyrim. The Stormies, whose small army is almost completely depleted can simply not defend against such a strike. What many Ulfric supporters forget is that the Empire has resorces outside of Skyrim, give them entry points all over the provence.
However, this is the point that the Dominion would strike. We all new this would happen. Ulfric's rebellion weakened Skyrim so much, that an entirely new army could take it. This is the part where anything could happen. Now, at this point we have a nearly destroyed Stormcloak army, and invading imperial army, and the supperior Aldermi Soldiers. The Stormcloaks would be destroyed, completely. The Dominion and Empire would both take heavy damage. The Dominion however would be in a bad spot even if they won this battle. The local Nords have serious problems with the elves. They would likely be fought out, or at least heavily resisted.
If the Empire were to win against to Dominion, the Great War is back on. However, the Empire is united again with Skyrim. The Nords will not take cause as much resistence towards the Empire, whom they had been a part of for years. The Redguards may or may not join back, but this is a problem for after the Great War II. The Nords now have a new chance to fight what they hate. The true enemy for them and for human kind is the Dominion.
tl;dr : Ulfric could not win, and if he did, the Empire is finished. If the Empire wins, they still have a chance.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Dude, the Dragonborn took arrows to more then just the knee! Eyes! Belly! Breast! Even in the epiglottis and You Know Where! It is okay to over-estimate him!
I took an arrow in the ass
But the Divines decided that I should have a second chance, and so they gave me life again.
Will Olmen
Member
I have to disagree with you here. Ulfric is the Jarl of one of Skyrim's oldest cities. Which, while in disrepair to some extent, is the capital of the eastmarch with is heavy with mines rich in iron and corindum. In other words it's one of Skyrim's primary suppliers of steel. They also have the resources available around Winterhold and the resources of Riften. The Stormcloaks aren't an illegitimate rebellion that lives in the woods and scrounges an existence. They're an army. Funded and supplied by two of Skyrim's major holds and one of the minor holds. And secretly funded and supported by the Silver-Bloods on Markath, who control a huge amount of wealth. Don't mistake what you see them packing for being poorly trained or equipped. They have fur tents and wear chainmail and doublets not because they're broke. They're a traditional nord army.
Nords may not overall TRUST mages at the peasant level, but the presence of court wizards and multiple, multiple magic users working in the communities of several cities shows that they don't outwardly attack them either. Winterhold and the college don't get along because the college does magical experiments. And in the past these experiments have gone poorly from time to time. Summoning a daedra or accidentally blowing up someone's home when some apprentice tries something outside his depth or a master simply over extends himself is a good way to make sure the local population distrusts mages. But in NO instance do we see Nords frothing at the mouth and attacking mages simply because they are mages. As for shunning elves I've already addressed that. There's racial tension there but any elf that puts in an honest day's work will have no problem in Skyrim. You'll notice the race that gives elves more grief than anyone are the redguards. You have a stereotypical perception of the nords as a people but I think you're forgetting that it was Nords moving south that built the Empire.
Completely disagree. The Empire isn't sitting on a massive army with nothing to do and just kind of hoping the Stormcloak thing resolves itself. The bulk of Imperial forces are protecting the border to Valenwood and elsweyr or dug in on the gold coast. They're working to insure the Aldmeri can't surprise them again. Those not dedicated to that are likely littered through Cyrodiil aiding in ongoing reclamation and rebuilding efforts. It's only been 26 years. Even with the aid of magic the Imperials have still got a long way to go before their nation is a shadow of its former self. You seem to be under the impression that after a devastating war the Empire somehow knocked up every woman it had and shot out a kid in no time flat and now they're all productive and fully trained troops. That simply isn't possible. The Empire is still a considerable military presence. But if they had the forces to plainly stamp out the Stormcloaks, they'd have done it by now. If they mustered their forces, yes, the Empire could probably still eradicate Ulfric's forces. But doing so would leave Cyrodiil open to a sudden attack by the remainder of the Dominion's forces. If the Stormcloaks win I'd bet the Empire would send envoys with offers of peace and alliance rather than armies. Or they'd simply reinforce their border and let Skyrim slip into isolationism.
Also it should be noted that the Empire does NOT have a plethora of ways to attack Skyrim. Mountains on the primary border, difficult to march through. The border to High Rock is an option but the two holds they would first encounter there would be Solitude and Markath. Neither of which would be an easy siege. Solitude being a single approach and Markath being dug into a mountain and easily sealed up. And the whole time that went on Ulfric's now bolstered armies would be marching to flank and drive the Imperials back out. Morrowind is the only viable option and getting an army there to march into Skyrim would mean pushing through Argonia. And the An-Xiheel simply wouldn't let that happen. The Empire would be at war with the Argonians then. If Skyrim breaks away the fact is that the Empire would probably be in no position to force them back into Imperial rule. That's why Tullias is fighting to unify NORD support FOR the Empire and use the present forces to win the war. If they could slam the nation with ready and willing Imperial soldiers Ulfric would have been dead before it ever got as bad as it is in the start of the game's events.
My final point to make is this: Do not over-estimate the Aldmeri Dominion. They are a weak government with large resources but kept in power by fascist tactics. Their hold on Valenwood and Elsweyr is entirely reliant on a population too scared to push back. If Skyrim broke away and the Dominion squeezed these people harder to hurry themselves into preparation for a new war they'd find themselves likely fighting their own rebellions. The Dominion is a force to be noticed, I'm not contesting that. But if they had the armies to essentially roll into anywhere with the wrath of God that so many people seem to think they could produce then why haven't they? Why sign the White-Gold Concordat? The Empire accepted it readily enough because they had been to hell and back and were happy to see peace come, despite the cost. But in offering it when so many believed the Dominion unstoppable they played a weak hand of cards. The general population seem to think the Concordat was one-sided in that the Empire seemed to get the raw end of the deal, giving up the most concessions. But consider this: The Dominion gave up all the gained ground in Cyrodiil and agreed to peace with an Empire they had decided to wipe out. They may not have given up land or religious belief but the Dominion showed itself to be MUCH weaker than originally believed. Think about it. They were rampaging, unstoppable. But ONE significant loss, just ONE broke their backs in the war effort. The Dominion could have continued the war. But they recognized that to win against the Empire meant depleting their forces so thoroughly they would be too weak to hold their own Dominion together. Losing the battle of the Red Ring equates to the German unsuccessful invasion of Russia. One serious defeat, one stumble in the blitzkreig and the whole momentum of the war is lost.
Epic Keith
By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
YOWCH! That musta hurt bad.....I took an arrow in the ass
But the Divines decided that I should have a second chance, and so they gave me life again.
But you should know Solitude Priests are experts in ass surgeries. It's sad you died in that city full of master ass surgeons!
DarkEastwood
Active Member
I can imagine Ulfric protecting his lands ruthlessly, and then once the Empire is weak after fighting the Thalmor, he would invade Cyrodiil and establish a new Empire.
Mr1cammando
asdf
I wonder, if the Empire is so ready for an Aldmeri attack, and they (The Dominion) are so weak as said here, why doesn't the Empire pop in and kick them out?
Will Olmen
Member
You're only wondering that because you're thinking in a very basic line of reasoning. It's simple. Both sides of the Great War were severely bloodied. The Empire has to rebuild its founding nation and the legions lost defending it. The Dominion has to rebuild it's primary army and reconsider any ideas of further war as their initial methods are no longer viable. The Dominion showed the Empire that they are a powerful enemy. The Empire showed the Dominion that in conventional warfare they can match up sword to sword. Neither side is ready to attack the other. Now, as for the Empire on the offensive. I'll explain why that's weak thinking.
The Empire is bordered to the south by Elsweyr and Valenwood. Elsweyr may not be an actual full on part of the Dominion but their lands are the Dominion's to play with. So the Aldmeri troops could pass through there. Valenwood's governmental body is part of the Dominion as well. So if the Empire attacked the Summerset Isles directly they would be flanked from the south. With their primary forces engaged away from the mainland with no easy way back, the Empire would not be in a defensible position. And attacking Valenwood directly would be a mistake because they would spread themselves too thin on fronts the Aldmeri could readily reinforce from the Summerset Isles. This leave Elsweyr. But with Elsweyr being only a collection of two 'client states' that are on paper autonomous governing bodies the Empire would be looked at as an invading tyrant, refusing to leave the already established succession of their former lands in peace. And that would cause backlash in politics, not to mention weaken their southern border as they stretched out to control lands taken. Leaving them open to the 'Heroic' Dominion's counter-attack to save the kingdoms under their protection.
It's basically the Tamrielian Cold War. Neither side is in a position to attack the other. While one might win, the resulting victory would leave their armies too wounded to effectively protect a country. The lands would fall into subsequent chaos and small fiefdoms as smaller governing bodies formed personal militias and the resulting dark age would be one of constant in-fighting and feudal warring until the victorious Empire or Dominion eventually collapsed. Read how Rome fell apart bit by bit for a fairly accurate model of events.
That said, it's obvious Skyrim is a part of this cold war. Ulfric is helped by the Thalmor in the background. Even HE doesn't know they are performing clandestine actions on his behalf. From here on this will be largely conjecture but I feel it is accurate given the evidence at hand. Ulfric was known to escape Imperial attempts to apprehend or kill him on multiple occasions. Now I've met Ulfric and his people and I don't think any of them are clever or strategic enough to CONSTANTLY evade ambushes and assassinations. Unless of course a discreet informant that had access to the information were to be secretly slipping it to Ulfric and his people. A Thalmor agent working in Solitude sending messages to a Thalmor agent working in Windhelm for instance. Two scouts maybe, sharing information to make sure neither side gains a huge advantage by way of tactical surprise. Keeping the war brewing and the attrition rate high. That is until one day Tallius decides to take only his personal guard to capture Ulfric. Something the Thalmor did not anticipate.
It is my belief that the Thalmor present at Helgen were there to insist that Ulfric Stormcloak be handed over to them to be made an example of for those that still worshiped Talos. And that is why Tallius decided then and there to execute him. To deny the Thalmor their attempt to steal his moment of glory. To secure HIS name in the annals of history as being the one to defeat Ulfric Stormcloak. The other idea could be that the Thalmor were telling him not to take him to the Imperial City, instead to kill him immediately. Which would be beneficial. An open trial in the Imperial court would bring to life all manner of nasty things and could lead to Ulfric accidentally revealing to the Empire that he was manipulated by the Thalmor. Knowingly or otherwise. But I feel if that were the case the Thalmor representative would have stayed to watch. And likely insisted he be first. Plus if Ulfric were executed without Trial in Skyrim while the Stormcloaks were still at their present strength he would become a martyr. Likely adding fuel to the fire of the war rather than ending it. And Ulfric's second in command would certainly have marched on Whiterun before the Empire even conceived the plan to reinforce them. Which would give the Stormcloaks a distinct advantage in the war there on. Either way there's evidence to show how strongly the Dominion was manipulating the series of events in the Civil War.
But don't mistake that for proof of the Dominion's power. Take it as proof of their weakness. They know that as long as Skyrim is part of the Empire another invasion would have similar results. The Imperials of Cyrodiil would fight harder than before and even if they were overrun the Dominion army would be so bloodied that the Nordic legions could march from the North and push twice as hard as was necessary. And with the Empire at a higher state of readiness and more dug-in, EXPECTING an attack, The Dominion's campaign would be more costly than before. Even if they took the Imperial City they'd be walking a road knee deep in their own dead to get there. Losing that much of their remaining forces would be devastating. And Imperial Legions bolstered with Nords and Bretons could easily force them not just from Cyrodiil, but likely from Valenwood as well. Elsweyr, cut off from the Summerset Isles through convenient means, as I'm sure the Empire would deploy a navy to make shipments to and from the two powers pretty darn risky, would eventually either rejoin the Empire or at worst come into friendly agreements with them. Effectively cutting the Aldmeri Dominion's head off from the body and leaving it to rot in the sea.
So there's your reasoning why neither side can attack. With things as they are the offensive for either would be successful at first but the loss of men on the offensive would leave the aggressor too weak to defend against a counter attack. And so the Cold War goes on. The Dominion feeding bits and bobs to an anti-Imperial rebellion in Skyrim, and no doubt the Empire providing information and supplies to resistance movements in Valenwood or sneaking out prominent figures from Elsweyr to later aid them in turning the Khajiit back into Imperial citizens.
The Empire is bordered to the south by Elsweyr and Valenwood. Elsweyr may not be an actual full on part of the Dominion but their lands are the Dominion's to play with. So the Aldmeri troops could pass through there. Valenwood's governmental body is part of the Dominion as well. So if the Empire attacked the Summerset Isles directly they would be flanked from the south. With their primary forces engaged away from the mainland with no easy way back, the Empire would not be in a defensible position. And attacking Valenwood directly would be a mistake because they would spread themselves too thin on fronts the Aldmeri could readily reinforce from the Summerset Isles. This leave Elsweyr. But with Elsweyr being only a collection of two 'client states' that are on paper autonomous governing bodies the Empire would be looked at as an invading tyrant, refusing to leave the already established succession of their former lands in peace. And that would cause backlash in politics, not to mention weaken their southern border as they stretched out to control lands taken. Leaving them open to the 'Heroic' Dominion's counter-attack to save the kingdoms under their protection.
It's basically the Tamrielian Cold War. Neither side is in a position to attack the other. While one might win, the resulting victory would leave their armies too wounded to effectively protect a country. The lands would fall into subsequent chaos and small fiefdoms as smaller governing bodies formed personal militias and the resulting dark age would be one of constant in-fighting and feudal warring until the victorious Empire or Dominion eventually collapsed. Read how Rome fell apart bit by bit for a fairly accurate model of events.
That said, it's obvious Skyrim is a part of this cold war. Ulfric is helped by the Thalmor in the background. Even HE doesn't know they are performing clandestine actions on his behalf. From here on this will be largely conjecture but I feel it is accurate given the evidence at hand. Ulfric was known to escape Imperial attempts to apprehend or kill him on multiple occasions. Now I've met Ulfric and his people and I don't think any of them are clever or strategic enough to CONSTANTLY evade ambushes and assassinations. Unless of course a discreet informant that had access to the information were to be secretly slipping it to Ulfric and his people. A Thalmor agent working in Solitude sending messages to a Thalmor agent working in Windhelm for instance. Two scouts maybe, sharing information to make sure neither side gains a huge advantage by way of tactical surprise. Keeping the war brewing and the attrition rate high. That is until one day Tallius decides to take only his personal guard to capture Ulfric. Something the Thalmor did not anticipate.
It is my belief that the Thalmor present at Helgen were there to insist that Ulfric Stormcloak be handed over to them to be made an example of for those that still worshiped Talos. And that is why Tallius decided then and there to execute him. To deny the Thalmor their attempt to steal his moment of glory. To secure HIS name in the annals of history as being the one to defeat Ulfric Stormcloak. The other idea could be that the Thalmor were telling him not to take him to the Imperial City, instead to kill him immediately. Which would be beneficial. An open trial in the Imperial court would bring to life all manner of nasty things and could lead to Ulfric accidentally revealing to the Empire that he was manipulated by the Thalmor. Knowingly or otherwise. But I feel if that were the case the Thalmor representative would have stayed to watch. And likely insisted he be first. Plus if Ulfric were executed without Trial in Skyrim while the Stormcloaks were still at their present strength he would become a martyr. Likely adding fuel to the fire of the war rather than ending it. And Ulfric's second in command would certainly have marched on Whiterun before the Empire even conceived the plan to reinforce them. Which would give the Stormcloaks a distinct advantage in the war there on. Either way there's evidence to show how strongly the Dominion was manipulating the series of events in the Civil War.
But don't mistake that for proof of the Dominion's power. Take it as proof of their weakness. They know that as long as Skyrim is part of the Empire another invasion would have similar results. The Imperials of Cyrodiil would fight harder than before and even if they were overrun the Dominion army would be so bloodied that the Nordic legions could march from the North and push twice as hard as was necessary. And with the Empire at a higher state of readiness and more dug-in, EXPECTING an attack, The Dominion's campaign would be more costly than before. Even if they took the Imperial City they'd be walking a road knee deep in their own dead to get there. Losing that much of their remaining forces would be devastating. And Imperial Legions bolstered with Nords and Bretons could easily force them not just from Cyrodiil, but likely from Valenwood as well. Elsweyr, cut off from the Summerset Isles through convenient means, as I'm sure the Empire would deploy a navy to make shipments to and from the two powers pretty darn risky, would eventually either rejoin the Empire or at worst come into friendly agreements with them. Effectively cutting the Aldmeri Dominion's head off from the body and leaving it to rot in the sea.
So there's your reasoning why neither side can attack. With things as they are the offensive for either would be successful at first but the loss of men on the offensive would leave the aggressor too weak to defend against a counter attack. And so the Cold War goes on. The Dominion feeding bits and bobs to an anti-Imperial rebellion in Skyrim, and no doubt the Empire providing information and supplies to resistance movements in Valenwood or sneaking out prominent figures from Elsweyr to later aid them in turning the Khajiit back into Imperial citizens.
Mr1cammando
asdf
Wow. When a small question is asked, one does not tend to expect such a length of text. I am more of a novice when it comes to the politics of the game. Hell, no matter how much i study the full Tamriel map, I can never remember the location of everything. The Cold War similie helped a lot though. Thanks. Have a rep.
Will Olmen
Member
I try not to come across as a wordy jerk or offend anyone. I've just always been intrigued by pretend politics and wartime tactics for some reason. Suffice it to say my friends refuse to play risk with me. But I'm glad I could help.
Mr1cammando
asdf
No, don't worry about it. I didn't know and you told me. It was a bit long winded, but a good read.
