Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Raijin]

It is annoying talking to someone who will not admit the truth when it is in his/her face.

"If you want to fool the world, tell the truth."

- Otto von Bismarck

What you have isn't truth, its bias and opinion. The fact that you refer to it as truth offends me. Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining.))

The Thalmor have a Dossier basically telling you that they are helping the Stormcloaks fight the Empire. That is a bad sign if the rebels do not realize they are being manipulated by the people who they hate.

And you don't think the Empire isn't being manipulated by the Thalmor? They practically have to do whatever the Thalmor wants them to do, especially after the little incident that initiated the great war.

 

[Raijin]

Forsworn don't fight for their people. Since they also attack Reachmen. They just want to kill all Nords, hardly a worthy or even political cause.

Where are you getting this from? They are too fighting for their people. I don't remember them attacking other Reachmen. Can you give me some examples of some other than travelers? Yes their intentions are to kill all Nords, can you not blame them? They're at holy war against them.

Despite appearing primitive in nature, the Forsworn have proven to be an aggressive political force which has an astute grasp of insurgency warfare, and even have agents living among the populace of Markarth in secret. They directly oppose all other major political groups active in the Reach, including the Thalmor. They wish to drive both Nords and the Empire out of the Reach and attain independence.


They're politically motivated and their aggressive course of actions is a political cause in their war against the Empire and the Nords.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Where are you getting this from? They are too fighting for their people. I don't remember them attacking other Reachmen. Can you give me some examples of some other than travelers? Yes their intentions are to kill all Nords, can you not blame them? They're at holy war against them.

Despite appearing primitive in nature, the Forsworn have proven to be an aggressive political force which has an astute grasp of insurgency warfare, and even have agents living among the populace of Markarth in secret. They directly oppose all other major political groups active in the Reach, including the Thalmor. They wish to drive both Nords and the Empire out of the Reach and attain independence.


They're politically motivated and their aggressive course of actions is a political cause in their war against the Empire and the Nords.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ainethach

They're a political force, yes. But they're not recognized as such by the Empire.

The Imperial Legion classifies them as little more than brigands, noting their constant raids and ambushes within the Hold. - The "Madmen" of the Reach.

The very book you were mentioning before.

 

[Jeremius]

"If you want to fool the world, tell the truth."

- Otto von Bismarck

What you have isn't truth, its bias and opinion. The fact that you refer to it as truth offends me. Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining.))

The Thalmor have a Dossier basically telling you that they are helping the Stormcloaks fight the Empire. That is a bad sign if the rebels do not realize they are being manipulated by the people who they hate.

And you don't think the Empire isn't being manipulated by the Thalmor? They practically have to do whatever the Thalmor wants them to do, especially after the little incident that initiated the great war.

They weren't manipulated into starting a war. Ulfric feels incompetent since he got captured and made to believe that his 'interrogation' led to the fall of the Imperial City, which was already captured. Their mere presence in Skyrim is causing rebels to pop up, and they arrest people for 'being Talos worshipers' sending soldiers running to the rebellion to keep the war going. That is the manipulation.

Also, Elenwen was Ulfric's torturer, which would make him want to get rid of her.

 

[DrunkenMage]

And you don't think the Empire isn't being manipulated by the Thalmor? They practically have to do whatever the Thalmor wants them to do, especially after the little incident that initiated the great war.

War between the Thalmor and Empire is inevitable.

 

[Raijin]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ainethach

They're a political force, yes. But they're not recognized as such by the Empire.

The Imperial Legion classifies them as little more than brigands, noting their constant raids and ambushes within the Hold. - The "Madmen" of the Reach.

The very book you were mentioning before.

Of course. Any political forces who are against the Empire are considered criminals and brigands. Just like what Ulfric says on his "Why I fight speech".

The Imperial Legion of Skyrim are exactly that.. brigands. Funny how my character woke up from being unconscious (Police brutality much???) only to wear prison clothing and my once possessions gone including my money, or what was left of it. They were going to steal my belongings and just flat out execute me without getting my side of the story.They would just mark it off as my character being involved in the Stormcloaks.

Isn't that what brigands do after all? Rob people and then murder them? Why is it that the Imperial legion are exempted from this very same definition?

 

[Jeremius]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ainethach

They're a political force, yes. But they're not recognized as such by the Empire.

The Imperial Legion classifies them as little more than brigands, noting their constant raids and ambushes within the Hold. - The "Madmen" of the Reach.

The very book you were mentioning before.

Of course. Any political forces who are against the Empire are considered criminals and brigands. Just like what Ulfric says on his "Why I fight speech".

The Imperial Legion of Skyrim are exactly that.. brigands. Funny how my character woke up from being unconscious (Police brutality much???) only to wear prison clothing and my once possessions gone including my money, or what was left of it. They were going to steal my belongings and just flat out execute me without getting my side of the story.They would just mark it off as my character being involved in the Stormcloaks.

Isn't that what brigands do after all? Rob people and then murder them? Why is it that the Imperial legion are exempted from this very same definition?

In regards to the bold? I have no clue on some things, but in this case, I think the war, started by Nords over something that the Thalmor wanted to use to distract and weaken the Empire, might have a hand in it.

 

[Ozan]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Ainethach

They're a political force, yes. But they're not recognized as such by the Empire.

The Imperial Legion classifies them as little more than brigands, noting their constant raids and ambushes within the Hold. - The "Madmen" of the Reach.

The very book you were mentioning before.

Of course. Any political forces who are against the Empire are considered criminals and brigands. Just like what Ulfric says on his "Why I fight speech".

The Imperial Legion of Skyrim are exactly that.. brigands. Funny how my character woke up from being unconscious (Police brutality much???) only to wear prison clothing and my once possessions gone including my money, or what was left of it. They were going to steal my belongings and just flat out execute me without getting my side of the story.They would just mark it off as my character being involved in the Stormcloaks.

Isn't that what brigands do after all? Rob people and then murder them? Why is it that the Imperial legion are exempted from this very same definition?

In regards to the bold? I have no clue on some things, but in this case, I think the war, started by Nords over something that the Thalmor wanted to use to distract and weaken the Empire, might have a hand in it.

Actually, there are some good questions here. Why are you the only one in rags and all the other folks allowed to keep they're armor?

Also, I work makes debate difficult. :c))

 

[NENALATA]

Isn't that what brigands do after all? Rob people and then murder them? Why is it that the Imperial legion are exempted from this very same definition?

So now the Imperials are brigands. Really?

I know when you're arrested in my state they take all your belongings so that's a mute point.

At any rate ~ This is a baseless argument because Hadvar says your remains will go back to your people. This would mean you things as well.

And judging by the condition of the Imperial cities in Skyrim vs Stormcloak, it's blatantly obvious the Empire has GIVEN Skyrim a hell of alot more than it's taken away.

Empire believes to each their ability, whereas Ulfric wants to make everything "fair" for the Nords. Which will ruin Skyrim's economy. Because if I as a Breton make more money than the Nords, they'll keep taking away from me until the game is "fair". Like the Battleborns.

I'm sorry but if you think the Imperials are brigands you do not understand the Empire.

 

[Raijin]

It is common practice to take all of your belongings once you get arrested, but once you become free your belongings are returned to you. When I go to solitude to join the Imperial legion you would think that after my charges of being involved with the Stormcloaks (according to them) goes away that Tullius or Legate Rikke would return my belongings. I got nothing returned, not even being compensated for not only being falsely arrested but was inches away of being murdered by the Imperial legion.

So the moral of this is that I was robbed (My clothing and my money) by the imperial legion and they almost robbed me of my existence. They make the thieves guide look like a bunch of poodles running around with those plumber butts sticking out from their hip area.

brigands: a robber who travels with others in a group = Imperial legion.

 

[Rimfaxe96]

It is common practice to take all of your belongings once you get arrested, but once you become free your belongings are returned to you. When I go to solitude to join the Imperial legion you would think that after my charges of being involved with the Stormcloaks (according to them) goes away that Tullius or Legate Rikke would return my belongings. I got nothing returned, not even being compensated for not only being falsely arrested but was inches away of being murdered by the Imperial legion.

Considering that Alduin took Helgen apart I wonder if your belongings weren't pretty much burned along with all the other properties. I doubt that any of those carriages were taken back to Solitude.
Heck, if it wasn't for her horse I bet not even Elenwen would have made it out.

 

[Jeremius]

Actually, there are some good questions here. Why are you the only one in rags and all the other folks allowed to keep they're armor?

Also, I work makes debate difficult. :c))

How can you make an example of the Stormcloaks if none of them are visible Stormcloaks?

 

[DrunkenMage]

The Imperial Legion of Skyrim are exactly that.. brigands. Funny how my character woke up from being unconscious (Police brutality much???) only to wear prison clothing and my once possessions gone including my money, or what was left of it. They were going to steal my belongings and just flat out execute me without getting my side of the story.They would just mark it off as my character being involved in the Stormcloaks.

Isn't that what brigands do after all? Rob people and then murder them? Why is it that the Imperial legion are exempted from this very same definition?

When I get arrested by the Holds my possessions are taken. Stormcloaks lost their possessions, except their armor. Wasn't until during the Dragon Attack they got it back (Well it explains how Ralof gets an axe before you enter the Keep.)

I don't think you understand Raijin, your side of the story doesn't matter in any of the provinces. You weren't at a trial, and this is about treason against the Empire. An Elder Council member was once charged with treason, he told his side of the story, said he was innocent. He lost his head.

You were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Well technically the right time, since you were there by the will of Akatosh. So technically speaking, you are there by Divine influence. So take it up with papa Akatosh.

So the moral of this is that I was robbed (My clothing and my money) by the imperial legion and they almost robbed me of my existence.

Who says you even had anything on you?

 

[DatKillDoe27]

I chose the Imperials because they are the lesser of the 2 evils. I still I hate the Thalmor part of the Imperials, but the Stormcloaks are just too pretentious and elitist. They hate almost all races. The Thalmor think that they are elite as well. The Imperials, however, do not like the Thalmor , so I chose them.

 

[DatKillDoe27]

Oh and hi everyone

 

[NENALATA]

Raijin said: ↑

It is common practice to take all of your belongings once you get arrested, but once you become free your belongings are returned to you. When I go to solitude to join the Imperial legion you would think that after my charges of being involved with the Stormcloaks (according to them) goes away that Tullius or Legate Rikke would return my belongings. I got nothing returned, not even being compensated for not only being falsely arrested but was inches away of being murdered by the Imperial legion.​

Considering that Alduin took Helgen apart I wonder if your belongings weren't pretty much burned along with all the other properties. I doubt that any of those carriages were taken back to Solitude.
Heck, if it wasn't for her horse I bet not even Elenwen would have made it out.

And to add on to this... The Imperials placed themselves between Civilians at Helgen. The GENERAL HIMSELF DID THIS.

This is some very serious deviant behavior for brigands.

No offense however you are wrong on this one. No one's perfect. The Imperials may be alot of things but brigands and raiders they are not.

 

[DrunkenMage]

"But they are no match for Legionnaires. You are the best and the brightest warriors in Tamriel. Professional soldiers, fearless and devastating."​

 

[DrunkenMage]

I chose the Imperials because they are the lesser of the 2 evils. I still I hate the Thalmor part of the Imperials, but the Stormcloaks are just too pretentious and elitist. They hate almost all races. The Thalmor think that they are elite as well. The Imperials, however, do not like the Thalmor , so I chose them.

Some nice dialogue of people talking about Ulfric.

"Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect."

"I've heard some things about Ulfric I don't like"

 

[Jeremius]

I chose the Imperials because they are the lesser of the 2 evils. I still I hate the Thalmor part of the Imperials, but the Stormcloaks are just too pretentious and elitist. They hate almost all races. The Thalmor think that they are elite as well. The Imperials, however, do not like the Thalmor , so I chose them.

Some nice dialogue of people talking about Ulfric.

"Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect."

"I've heard some things about Ulfric I don't like"

There are some things that the stormcloaks got right, though.

 

[DrunkenMage]

There are some things that the stormcloaks got right, though.

Such as? They have no allies, their war depleted much of Skyrim's internal resources, they have to rebuild without Imperial assistance.

They're giving each Jarl their own army, which could lead to problems later down the road when Ulfric dies. Now that you can now challenge the next ruler of Skyrim without any issues... in theory. Most likely there will be issues, having your own personal army tends to change perspectives.

Skyrim is crippled, and Cyrodiil is on the brink of war. If the Aldmeri smash through the ranks of the Legion (Not to mention there are many Nords who still serve in the Imperial Army, so many of them could simply lay down their weapons and return home.) Skyrim will be next. Stormcloaks have no means to combat the espionage of the Thalmor, and their Military ability could barely hold out against the weakest of the Legion. ( In fact it didn't hold out, Ulfric was captured and faced execution.)

Also the Forsworn problems. The Stormcloaks will enslave what they can, but this piece of dialogue was disturbing to say the least...

"Let the Forsworn ravage the Reach. Talos favors us. Our victory is assured." - Jarl Thongvor Silver-Blood

Also there are rumors the Thalmor are indeed gathering strength for round two of the war.

"But I've heard disturbing rumors that they're marshalling their strength." - Jarl Igmund, Diplomatic Immunity talking about the Thalmor