Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[DrunkenMage]

because you were with stormcloaks, and that makes you guilty of something to do with the stormcloaks even though there is no record of anything to do with stormcloaks.

That doesn't matter, it is how law works in Tamriel.

and DrunkenMage: Why is there not a C) Lock the PC up and try to figure out why he/she was on the cart? Unless the captain did not care for the truth and was looking for an excuse to kill some random.

Because you're already guilty. The crime to be executed isn't your minor assault. You're on the cart, why would she lock you up? Because your name wasn't recorded prior to standing in front of her?

The Captain's truth was simple. You're guilty. By law, you're guilty, understand that. You have no legal rights, so why would they lock you away. You're facing summary execution, it's either you have some defense this second, or off to the block. I have repeated myself several times now.

So I will make it bold, so it can sink into your head.

If a member of the Elder Council, who was also put in the exact same situation as the player. He had no evidence, other than his word. He was executed. So why would you, suspected of treason. Be given special treatment, taken for some interrogation. For the exact same outcome, to get executed. Because? Your word, isn't evidence.

Now we have you, who has got it into his mind. That when saying you're innocent without evidence is some kind of valid excuse? Never become a judge.

"I can't be executed. You see, in my opinion, I'm actually innocent."

 

[Jeremius]

because you were with stormcloaks, and that makes you guilty of something to do with the stormcloaks even though there is no record of anything to do with stormcloaks.

That doesn't matter, it is how law works in Tamriel.

and DrunkenMage: Why is there not a C) Lock the PC up and try to figure out why he/she was on the cart? Unless the captain did not care for the truth and was looking for an excuse to kill some random.

Because you're already guilty. The crime to be executed isn't your minor assault. You're on the cart, why would she lock you up? Because your name wasn't recorded prior to standing in front of her?

The Captain's truth was simple. You're guilty. By law, you're guilty, understand that. You have no legal rights, so why would they lock you away. You're facing summary execution, it's either you have some defense this second, or off to the block. I have repeated myself several times now.

So I will make it bold, so it can sink into your head.

If a member of the Elder Council, who was also put in the exact same situation as the player. He had no evidence, other than his word. He was executed. So why would you, suspected of treason. Be given special treatment, taken for some interrogation. For the exact same outcome, to get executed. Because? Your word, isn't evidence.

Now we have you, who has got it into his mind. That when saying you're innocent without evidence is some kind of valid excuse? Never become a judge.

"I can't be executed. You see, in my opinion, I'm actually innocent."

Guilty of what? Being in the same vicinity as rebels? Some woman's accusations that you are a rebel who is not a rebel? What is the crime other than being caught in an ambush by crazy imperials?

We are all guilty of crossing the border, but that is not what it is, right? Then everything magically goes away when we escape.

SO the innocence in proven once the captain is dead and there is nobody else accusing you of being anything.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Guilty of what? Being in the same vicinity as rebels? Some woman's accusations that you are a rebel who is not a rebel? What is the crime other than being caught in an ambush by crazy imperials?

Well judging by Lokir's pleading. You and him were being executed as Stormcloaks. So you're guilty of treason against the Emperor, possibly murder, insurrection too. Since the Stormcloaks have been active for some time, with talks of skirmishes, so between the Holds. Maybe also accessory to High Treason. Could be several pages of things the Empire considers Stormcloaks guilty of.

We are all guilty of crossing the border, but that is not what it is, right?

Treason, son. Treason.

 

[Jeremius]

Guilty of what? Being in the same vicinity as rebels? Some woman's accusations that you are a rebel who is not a rebel? What is the crime other than being caught in an ambush by crazy imperials?

Well judging by Lokir's pleading. You and him were being executed as Stormcloaks. So you're guilty of treason against the Emperor, possibly murder, insurrection too. Since the Stormcloaks have been active for some time, with talks of skirmishes, so between the Holds.

We are all guilty of crossing the border, but that is not what it is, right?

Treason, son. Treason.

and all of that is gone when the only person actually "Accusing" us of it is dead, therefore there are not real guilt or innocence in a "his word vs mine" debate.

Guilty while the captain accusing you is alive, innocent when she dies, as there is no evidence other than one captain calling you a traitor to make you a traitor.

 

[DrunkenMage]

and all of that is gone when the only person actually "Accusing" us of it is dead, therefore there are not real guilt or innocence in a "his word vs mine" debate.

No, doesn't work like that. The Captain isn't accusing you either?

"Listen, as far as I'm concerned you've already earned your pardon. But until we get that confirmed by General Tullius, just stay clear of other Imperial soldiers and avoid any complications, all right?" - Hadvar

 

[Jeremius]

and all of that is gone when the only person actually "Accusing" us of it is dead, therefore there are not real guilt or innocence in a "his word vs mine" debate.

No, doesn't work like that. The Captain isn't accusing you either?

"Listen, as far as I'm concerned you've already earned your pardon. But until we get that confirmed by General Tullius, just stay clear of other Imperial soldiers and avoid any complications, all right?" - Hadvar

guilty by law? OR by insanity?

If the law really was the law and not some woman saying so, why can you walk by imperial patrols and not be a rebel? Because you are not seen with rebels therefore are no longer guilty by law.

 

[DrunkenMage]

guilty by law? OR by insanity?

Well, debating with you does make me question what is going on up there in your head.

 

[Jeremius]

guilty by law? OR by insanity?

Well, debating with you does make me question what is going on up there in your head.

if you walk around and an imperial patrol just sees you walking with no rebel nearby, then by law you are not a rebel. No guilt if you have nothing to accuse you with.

 

[DrunkenMage]

if you walk around and an imperial patrol just sees you walking with no rebel nearby, then by law you are not a rebel. No guilt if you have nothing to accuse you with.

So using your logic.

If you walk past a Thalmor patrol or during Diplomatic immunity wearing a Talos amulet in front of Elenwen, nothing happens. No Talos ban then aye?

 

[Jeremius]

if you walk around and an imperial patrol just sees you walking with no rebel nearby, then by law you are not a rebel. No guilt if you have nothing to accuse you with.

So using your logic.

If you walk past a Thalmor patrol or during Diplomatic immunity wear a Talos amulet in front of Elenwen, nothing happens. No Talos ban then aye?

just using the "guilty until proven innocent" line. none of the patrols you walk into really know you, so would have no clue what happened with you in Helgen. It is like if you commit a crime and no one notices. do people know you committed a crime?

no circumstantial evidence, no guilt in anything.

 

[DrunkenMage]

just using the "guilty until proven innocent" line. none of the patrols you walk into really know you, so would have no clue what happened with you in Helgen. It is like if you commit a crime and no one notices. do people know you committed a crime?

How do hold guards in Windhelm know you have a stolen cabbage from Solitude? When they take it off you when you're arrested.

Something Lore wise and in-game mechanics are two different things.

 

[Jeremius]

just using the "guilty until proven innocent" line. none of the patrols you walk into really know you, so would have no clue what happened with you in Helgen. It is like if you commit a crime and no one notices. do people know you committed a crime?

How do hold guards in Windhelm know you have a stolen cabbage from Solitude? When they take it off you when you're arrested.

Something Lore wise and in-game mechanics are two different things.

only if you get caught. Because lore-wise would be the same thing. no one notices you, no crime. then you dump the goods and free as a bird.

Guilty until proven innocent. no way to accuse you of any kind of guilt, no real guilt. otherwise there would be no way for you to join the legion.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Guilty until proven innocent. no way to accuse you of any kind of guilt, no real guilt. otherwise there would be no way for you to join the legion.

Tullius pardons you before you join the Legion.

 

[Jeremius]

Guilty until proven innocent. no way to accuse you of any kind of guilt, no real guilt. otherwise there would be no way for you to join the legion.

Tullius pardons you before you join the Legion.

but you walk around all the time. I doubt that lore-wise, the PC went into hiding until they got pardoned.

you are guilty until proven innocent, and lore-wise, if you saw me simply wandering around, not with rebels, are you going to think of me as a stormcloak? or are you going to see a regular person walking around?

 

[DrunkenMage]

but you walk around all the time. I doubt that lore-wise, the PC went into hiding until they got pardoned.

Doesn't really matter, the events of Helgen with dragons and Ulfric escaping and the war goes back on would take higher priority than an escaped prisoner.

Though the Legion wouldn't recognize you, Tullius wouldn't have had wanted posters put up for you, when the only person who knows your alive is either Hadvar who doesn't report in until after you join the Legion and Ralof who by obvious reasons doesn't matter.

You're not really a high priority.

 

[Jeremius]

but you walk around all the time. I doubt that lore-wise, the PC went into hiding until they got pardoned.

Doesn't really matter, the events of Helgen with dragons and Ulfric escaping and the war goes back on would take higher priority than an escaped prisoner.

Though the Legion wouldn't recognize you, Tullius wouldn't have had wanted posters put up for you, when the only person who knows your alive is either Hadvar who doesn't report in until after you join the Legion and Ralof who by obvious reasons doesn't matter.

You're not really a high priority.

if the legion does not recognize you, are you really guilty by law?

 

[DrunkenMage]

but are you guilty of anything if there are no accusations of that stuff?

It doesn't matter, this has nothing to do with the subject. Where is the direction you're going for? You were guilty by law when facing your execution. After Helgen who gives a fluff.

 

[Jeremius]

but are you guilty of anything if there are no accusations of that stuff?

It doesn't matter, this has nothing to do with the subject. Where is the direction you're going for? You were guilty by law when facing your execution. After Helgen who gives a fluff.

thanks for answering my question. Outside of Helgen, you are not guilty of anything, and thus, helgen means nothing to anyone after that bloody captain is dead.

lets use another example of "guilty until proven innocent" and how it plays out with the law:

I sneak into your house, steal you favorite sword, and sneak out of town without anybody knowing. Am I guilty of Theft by law?

 

[DrunkenMage]

thanks for answering my question. Outside of Helgen, you are not guilty of anything, and thus, helgen means nothing to anyone after that bloody captain is dead.

I didn't answer the question. I said it didn't matter. You're guilty, but it means nothing because all record of you is destroyed in the attack by Alduin. The only two people who can say anything is Tullius who pardons you and Hadvar. Imperial patrols have no knowledge of who you are.

Many escaped prisoners are ignored, which is why the Companions go after them.

lets use another example of "guilty until proven innocent" and how it plays out with the law:

I sneak into your house, steal you favorite sword, and sneak out of town without anybody knowing. Am I guilty of Theft by law?

Is that really your example, honestly? That is like saying if I killed someone and hid the body, am I a murderer in the eyes of the law?

Yes you are guilty of theft?

Fact I need to explain that worries me.

 

[Jeremius]

thanks for answering my question. Outside of Helgen, you are not guilty of anything, and thus, helgen means nothing to anyone after that bloody captain is dead.

I didn't answer the question. I said it didn't matter. You're guilty, but it means nothing because all record of you is destroyed in the attack by Alduin. The only two people who can say anything is Tullius who pardons you and Hadvar. Imperial patrols have no knowledge of who you are.

Many escaped prisoners are ignored, which is why the Companions go after them.

you did with the "who gives a fluff" line. with no record, you are not guilty of treason, insurrection or any of that garbage. you are free by the law. only a die-hard moron would think otherwise

lets use another example of "guilty until proven innocent" and how it plays out with the law:

I sneak into your house, steal you favorite sword, and sneak out of town without anybody knowing. Am I guilty of Theft by law?

Is that really your example, honestly? That is like saying if I killed someone and hid the body, am I a murderer in the eyes of the law?

Yes you are guilty of theft?

Fact I need to explain that worries me.

By law? The law does not know I stole the sword. maybe in some divine sense, yes. But by "Guilty until proven innocent" there is nothing to connect to me to the theft, especially if I get out of town with it and no one notices.

you are a murderer, but if they do not know you actually killed the person, no one is going to accuse you of it so you are not actually guilty of committing a crime punishable unless you turn yourself in.

if I no long have that word after I stole it (Sold it to a fence, dropped in in the woods somewhere) Can you accuse me of stealing it if you never saw me steal it?