Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

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DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
In a perfect Skyrim, I could convince Balgruuf to join Ulfric, kick the @$$ hat Skald into the sea and let him freeze to death, and replace the Jarl of Witnerhold with one that actually likes the College and see it as an assest like Kraldar. But life is not perfect and nither is Skyrim.

I actually had an amusing Season Unending awhile ago, it made me laugh at Ulfric's strategical mind. The Empire got two holds, Riften and Winterhold, Ulfric got Markarth and Elenwen to leave. He was happy, thought the terms were great.
 
I actually had an amusing Season Unending awhile ago, it made me laugh at Ulfric's strategical mind. The Empire got two holds, Riften and Winterhold, Ulfric got Markarth and Elenwen to leave. He was happy, thought the terms were great.


Well never done that might have to see that one, anyway it's been fun for today but I have the real world to contend with and my kids just woke up and are hungry, since I'm not evil I won't let them starve and make dinner.
 

Epic Keith

By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
do you even listen what i say if the great war is ended than! the Empire or mabye the new Skyrim
can take the elves land Summerset Isle and later remake a good gouverment the same as what america did with germany

Sorry but I did not understand your post :)
1.) I never said Titus Mede's abandonment if the Imperial city was the wrong thing to do only someone who has never read the books on the Great War in the game can say that. He traded lives for time, in war there is nothing wrong with that because if he didn't he would have lost entirely.

2.) The only thing that Mede surrendered was Talos. He fought another Empire to a standstill. The only thing that I think he should done is if he had spent a week or two gather information he could have taken a good chunk of territory from the Elves and made a better treaty one where they were on equal footing not allowing a hostile nation's troops be able to run rampant around his. If he had done this Hammerfell might still be part of the Empire.


3.) And there would have been a Civil War anyway.

4.) Good warriors don't have the patience for politicians (who can blame them) They need someone else to do that for them.

5.) At the time the High King spoke for all Nords. So yes the Nords did give it to them. Never said Ulfric did, I doubt Ulfric would have done the same because of the heritage, claim, and the resources on it.

6.) Whiterun accepted the Legion after Ulfric's demands, not before that's why there was not a Legate in Whiterun. Jarl Balgruuf wanted to stay out of it because it would have killed too many of his people, and it didn't help that he didn't have the war fluffy feelings for Ulfric that Skald has either.
1) Then why are you telling me? Tell it to King.

2)And how could he do that if his men were lying dead in the streets of the Imperial City? The ones alive were too tired to keep on fighting.

3) Agreed, But Mage stated earlier that The Legion won't have to occupy it again. If they separated peacefully then they could co-operate with eachother. Although I don't think two different factions can fight together peacefully.

4) Stormies believe Ulfric is both. Politician and Warrior.

5 and 6) Can't argue with you there. :)
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
Sorry but I did not understand your post :)
1) Then why are you telling me? Tell it to King.

2)And how could he do that if his men were lying dead in the streets of the Imperial City? The ones alive were too tired to keep on fighting.

3) Agreed, But Mage stated earlier that The Legion won't have to occupy it again. If they separated peacefully then they could co-operate with eachother. Although I don't think two different factions can fight together peacefully.

4) Stormies believe Ulfric is both. Politician and Warrior.

5 and 6) Can't argue with you there. :)

The Empire needed peace to gain it's strength, many of the Legions could of been fighting every day for four years. There would be many wounded, Legionnaires and Civilians alike, the Legions in Hammerfell lost quite a few of their number in the March of Thirst, where they had to march across the Great Desert. Hundreds would of died from that alone. The Legions did do well in the Great War as it is noted in many of their battles. Hammerfell Campaign was actually doing wonderful in the later part of the war, General Decianus was about to push the Aldmeri Dominion back all across Hammerfell until he was ordered to return to Cyrodiil, where the Battle of the Red Ring took a large toll on the Legions.

While many Stormcloak supporters argue the Empire lost the Great War, and that the Legions are weak, they are greatly mistaken. The Legions did exceptionally in the Great War, when they were able to mobilize for attack they held their own, even keeping the Aldmeri from advancing any further in some cases. What would of been the main losses was that during the Battle of the Red Ring, it wasn't an open battle. The Legions were assaulting the Imperial City itself, the Aldmeri had occupied it for nearly a year. So it would of been a battle for every inch. How the Imperial city is constructed, each section of the city contains a large gate and is walled. It would of been like besieging several forts. Every time you breach a gate and take control of part of the city, you would need to breach another heavy gate, and another and another. All the while the Altmer Mages and Bosmer archers are firing into you.

I would say in the next Great War, the Aldmeri Dominion will have something coming to them. The Empire may of been weakened than it was two hundred years ago, but even a weakened Empire managed to fight a strong Aldmeri Dominion to a stand still. That alone speaks volumes.

The issue of the Legions attacking Skyrim is, they can't risk their defenses against the Aldmeri Dominion. The Empire see's the larger picture, the Civil War in Skyrim is nothing but a side show, a distraction before the main event against the Thalmor resume. If Skyrim left the Empire peacefully then there wouldn't be any issues, Skyrim would still be an ally of Cyrodiil, order would be good in Skyrim, the Legion stepped in to restore order. What Ulfric does however is execute Tullius after his surrender. That itself could spark a war with the Empire.

The difference between Ulfric's rebellion and if Torygg left the Empire peacefully, Ulfric's rebellion is Thalmor doing, they want the Stormcloaks to attack the Legion and divert the Empire's attention away from the next Great War. Ulfric is a Thalmor asset, he is doing exactly what they want. Raijin will sometimes argue that the Empire should seek peace with Ulfric, but that's like saying Ulfric is a man of peace. It's a stupid argument, like many other Stormcloak debates in this thread. That unwilling to see the larger picture, and making Ulfric out to be something he isn't. He started the war, he brought the bloodshed, there is only a threat to the citizens of Skyrim because of Ulfric.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
One question Mage? Did you spend the last decade studying Elder Scrolls History? :p

No, I kept making mistakes and Dagmar would beat me into submission. So I try to gain some knowledge on the matters at hand, didn't take very long to figure several things out. I still make mistakes and Dagmar will still sometimes beat me into submission and I'll cry in the corner, feeling violated. But all in all, it's just being in this thread for ages you pick up on many things. Other things fall down to logic, and common sense.
 

KingNLD

Member
you know it's just a game, the only thing that i choose Stormcloaks is for Liberty.
and yes a long time Empire rule it, but i find that the People of skyrim are so different
people than Cydiil or how you name it. i find the people of skyrim proud and strong people
if the people are the same like the empire home mabye i choose otherwise.
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
People are nicer in Cyrodiil. You get complimented correctly for your feats and deeds, they even say you're becoming a legend in these parts.
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
I really don't know how or why anyone could say with a straight face that the Imperials of Cyrodiil are any less brave and strong and proud and devoted to their homeland's protection than the Nords collectively. Especially given the fact that so many Imperials fought and died and bled and endured torture at the hands of the Dominion forces amid the absolute hell of the Great War.
 

KingNLD

Member
I really don't know how or why anyone could say with a straight face that the Imperials of Cyrodiil are any less brave and strong and proud and devoted to their homeland's protection than the Nords collectively. Especially given the fact that so many Imperials fought and died and bled and endured torture at the hands of the Dominion forces amid the absolute hell of the Great War.

if you mean me i not say that. and i not meant it. the only thing i say is that a imperial say people in cyrodiil are nicer i think how old are you.
 

Epic Keith

By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
I really don't know how or why anyone could say with a straight face that the Imperials of Cyrodiil are any less brave and strong and proud and devoted to their homeland's protection than the Nords collectively. Especially given the fact that so many Imperials fought and died and bled and endured torture at the hands of the Dominion forces amid the absolute hell of the Great War.
They are nords. Someof them are actually racists. They just think the world revolves around them and them alone

And king, I don't know a single person who played oblivion and joined the stormies
 

Docta Corvina

Well-Known Member
They are nords. Someof them are actually racists. They just think the world revolves around them and them alone

And king, I don't know a single person who played oblivion and joined the stormies

Erm, I was under the impression that there was a comparison being drawn between Imperials (people of Cyrodiil, ie. 'Colovians') versus Nords. :confused: If not, mea culpa. I know the Legion is composed of several races and peoples, but it seems like sometimes this notion that the Imperials (the race) are less honorable or not as "strong" as Nords comes up. And I just simply have to disagree with it. :p
 

Epic Keith

By Ysmir you're going to FREEZE to death!
if you mean me i not say that. and i not meant it. the only thing i say is that a imperial say people in cyrodiil are nicer i think how old ar you.
The Imperials arent t calling us milk drinkers now are they
 

DrunkenMage

Intoxicated Arch-Mage
how old are you ten? the people in skyrim they give compliments to.

You're actually hardly recognized by the people in Skyrim. In Oblivion they would actually make a more mention to your deeds and on your fame and or infamy.

if you mean me i not say that. and i not meant it. the only thing i say is that a imperial say people in cyrodiil are nicer i think how old are you.

I said people of Cyrodiil. That means all races, being Imperial doesn't mean Cyrodiil is your homeland, a thing Stormcloak supporters forget. Many races are born and raised in Skyrim, doesn't make them any less citizens than the Nords born and raised in Skyrim and other provinces beyond.

Skyrim is a great place, full of diverse and wonderful cultures. So to is Morrowind, High Rock and Hammerfell, a person's race doesn't mean their allegiance. Stormcloaks are a xenophobic, sub class of who the Nords are. Now before trying to insult, asking how old I am in some insulting manner. Perhaps you should take a step back, because there are many times where you should be insulted for the things you say, while I give you the benefit of the doubt. There are indeed many things you say in this thread that are degrading to many cultures, and past historical events. Such as trying to use something about Nazis and Jews to somehow produce a valid argument.

Onto the issue at hand in this debate, just because someone is Imperial it doesn't mean they should go back Cyrodiil because of their race. The whole Skyrim for the Nords is a disgrace, Nords have a wonderful and great history and culture. How they value honor and tradition, how the Empire itself has honored these traditions also speaks volumes. Skyrim is a very special province, it has been allowed to maintain many traditions. The Jarls, the High King, the moot even. Every other province of the Empire, the head of state has been the Emperor, in Skyrim the head of state is the High King. The Empire has respected their culture, Tullius while not understanding the Nordic culture does get frustrated but if one plays the Legion quest line, you find Tullius comes to greatly respect the Nords and their way of life.

Nords should at least show some respect to the race that has fought beside them for hundreds of years, across two Empires. Imperials and Nords in the Great War, fighting side by side, bleeding and dying for each other. Denying the respect Imperials provide the Nords is disrespectful in many ways, even in Oblivion you find many Imperials commenting on how much they respect the Nords, and don't judge their strange traditions.
 
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