Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Of course it isn't their entire Army. The Imperial army is tied down on the Aldmeri Dominion border. Reinforcements are few and far between, the legion is spread thin. My guess is they've reformed the defensive lines on Valenwood to include Elsweyr, something their learned in the Great war, when they were flanked from hidden Aldmeri camps inside Elsweyr.

Under trained? You mean the Stormcloaks? Many are ex Legionnaires, trained in the same way as the Empire side. It is a civil war because it is mainly between kin.

"I realize some of you may know men on the other side. But remember this. They are the enemy now and will not hesitate to end your lives either" - Legate Rikke

"But don't underestimate the Stormcloaks. Many are Legion veterans. They may be traitors, but they know how to fight." - Legate Rikke

That is a gross exaggeration at best and there is no way to prove there are more than a few. Besides, if the majority are ex legion then in your own words we are equivalent to your own faction.

 

[Docta Corvina]

Take it from Ulfric himself when he even says that he cannot risk all out war with the Empire. Ex-Legion and equally trained or not, the Stormcloaks are not, according to him, in a position to go full-on with Cyrodiil. What they want is to drive the Imperials out, but if it meant going toe-to-toe with the full forces of the Empire, they'd be at a very sore disadvantage. They are, for all intents and purposes, the "underdog" in this fight, which is a reason that some people favor them. No one really wants open war with the Imperial heartland, not even Tullius - who wishes the entire affair could be wrapped up quickly and that contingents be drawn from local recruitment instead of forces from the homeland. Ulfric in turn knows the consequences if Cyrodiil dropped the proverbial hammer on Skyrim. The only ones who want that kind of chaos are the Thalmor.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Take it from Ulfric himself when he even says that he cannot risk all out war with the Empire. Ex-Legion and equally trained or not, the Stormcloaks are not, according to him, in a position to go full-on with Cyrodiil. What they want is to drive the Imperials out, but if it meant going toe-to-toe with the full forces of the Empire, they'd be at a very sore disadvantage. They are, for all intents and purposes, the "underdog" in this fight, which is a reason that some people favor them. No one really wants open war with the Imperial heartland, not even Tullius - who wishes the entire affair could be wrapped up quickly and that contingents be drawn from local recruitment instead of forces from the homeland. Ulfric in turn knows the consequences if Cyrodiil dropped the proverbial hammer on Skyrim. The only ones who want that kind of chaos are the Thalmor.

That is becuase the stormcloaks are dramatically outnumbered, the legion is better equipped, and better funded.

 

[DrunkenMage]

That is a gross exaggeration at best and there is no way to prove there are more than a few. Besides, if the majority are ex legion then in your own words we are equivalent to your own faction.

Stormcloaks actually have an advantage, not only proper Legion veterans in their ranks, they know how the Legion fights and operates. Also reinforcements from the Stormcloaks are pouring in, while the Legion is very limited in personnel. With the loss of Helgan communications to Cyrodiil were cut off. Not until they retake the Rift, do they solidify communications with Cyrodiil, which is said during Season Unending on an Neutral stand point.

Tullius: "He'd be insane to try. He doesn't have the men."
Rikke: "That's not what my scouts report, sir. Every day more join his cause. Riften, Dawnstar, and Winterhold support him."

This shows every day more are joining him. Which is heard when you enter Castle Dour.

 

[Docta Corvina]

That is becuase the stormcloaks are dramatically outnumbered, the legion is better equipped, and better funded.

Indeed.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Stormcloaks actually have an advantage, not only proper Legion veterans in their ranks, they know how the Legion fights and operates. Also reinforcements from the Stormcloaks are pouring in, while the Legion is very limited in personnel. With the loss of Helgan communications to Cyrodiil were cut off. Not until they retake the Rift, do they solidify communications with Cyrodiil, which is said during Season Unending on an Neutral stand point.

Tullius: "He'd be insane to try. He doesn't have the men."
Rikke: "That's not what my scouts report, sir. Every day more join his cause. Riften, Dawnstar, and Winterhold support him."

Only in the Civil War in Skyrim. It is an isolated and conditional advantage.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Only in the Civil War in Skyrim. It is an isolated and conditional advantage.

I don't believe the Legion can weaken their border stare down with the Aldmeri Dominion. Unless they divert a Legion from High Rock. Maybe Hammerfell will take advantage in take parts of Skyrim for themselves, Legion won't be able to stop them if they're pushed out of Skyrim.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I don't believe the Legion can weaken their border stare down with the Aldmeri Dominion. Unless they divert a Legion from High Rock. Maybe Hammerfell will take advantage in take parts of Skyrim for themselves, Legion won't be able to stop them if they're pushed out of Skyrim.

Granted, but I do not believe Hammerfell will want more territory to defend, as well as a hostile population to deal with. As for the Civil War, all the rebels have to do is LAST. The Empire has to WIN. It would not be such a taxing war if they would accept Skyrim's independence and open diplomatic relations.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Granted, but I do not believe Hammerfell will want more territory to defend, as well as a hostile population to deal with. As for the Civil War, all the rebels have to do is LAST. The Empire has to WIN. It would not be such a taxing war if they would accept Skyrim's independence and open diplomatic relations.

Hammerfell might want their territory back which the Nords took when they invaded High Rock and Hammerfell during the reign of Uriel VII in the Imperial Simulacrum. They may or may not do it, would be a perfect time to do so, Skyrim is weakened after the Civil war and up for some taking. Redguards are the most naturally talented warriors in all of Tamriel.

It isn't as easy as simple Diplomatic relations, the Stormcloaks have forced many non-nord merchants out of business who will have to close, I doubt they'd all of a sudden be all "Hey, so about the rebellion... no hard feelings." They do execute Tullius if they win, which to be honest he would of been a good bargaining chip if I was wanting independence. They seek to remove ALL Imperial influence, that would include the EEC, which brings so much needed resources into Skyrim.

"When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion" Which I find rather interesting, on how they plan to get to the Aldmeri Dominion, unless they plan to like sail there.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Hammerfell might want their territory back which the Nords took when they invaded High Rock and Hammerfell during the reign of Uriel VII in the Imperial Simulacrum. They may or may not do it, would be a perfect time to do so, Skyrim is weakened after the Civil war and up for some taking. Redguards are the most naturally talented warriors in all of Tamriel.

It isn't as easy as simple Diplomatic relations, the Stormcloaks have forced many non-nord merchants out of business who will have to close, I doubt they'd all of a sudden be all "Hey, so about the rebellion... no hard feelings." They do execute Tullius if they win, which to be honest he would of been a good bargaining chip if I was wanting independence. They seek to remove ALL Imperial influence, that would include the EEC, which brings so much needed resources into Skyrim.

"When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion" Which I find rather interesting, on how they plan to get to the Aldmeri Dominion, unless they plan to like sail there.

As Sybille Stentor puts it. "Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire."

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Hammerfell might want their territory back which the Nords took when they invaded High Rock and Hammerfell during the reign of Uriel VII in the Imperial Simulacrum. They may or may not do it, would be a perfect time to do so, Skyrim is weakened after the Civil war and up for some taking. Redguards are the most naturally talented warriors in all of Tamriel.

It isn't as easy as simple Diplomatic relations, the Stormcloaks have forced many non-nord merchants out of business who will have to close, I doubt they'd all of a sudden be all "Hey, so about the rebellion... no hard feelings." They do execute Tullius if they win, which to be honest he would of been a good bargaining chip if I was wanting independence. They seek to remove ALL Imperial influence, that would include the EEC, which brings so much needed resources into Skyrim.

"When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion" Which I find rather interesting, on how they plan to get to the Aldmeri Dominion, unless they plan to like sail there.

Ulfric doesn't have the best plans for EVERYTHING, and no faction is perfect. They have redeemable qualities and with the PC given more freedom we could set them right... I do not know which part of Skyrim is former property of Hammerfell, so please enlighten me on the lure! As for the execution of Tullius, he kindly returns the favor on the other end. He risks creating a martyr, and probably uses the renown of the dragonborn to solidify Imperial control (JUST LIKE ULFRIC).

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

As Sybille Stentor puts it. "Because the Dominion is a sleeping beast that Skyrim cannot slay alone. Because many Nords are part of the Imperial army even now. Because the food and resources we get from the Empire are important to our people. Because even if we can't openly worship him, Talos the god was once Tiber Septim the man, and this is his Empire."

Of course Skyrim would need help. That is another reason that the Empire should accept Skyrim's independence. Skyrim doesn't have to starve. The Empire does not have to be the enemy. Talos was a Nord before he was an Imperial. And those Nords can stay in the Legion.

 

[DrunkenMage]

Ulfric doesn't have the best plans for EVERYTHING, and no faction is perfect. They have redeemable qualities and with the PC given more freedom we could set them right... I do not know which part of Skyrim is former property of Hammerfell, so please enlighten me on the lure! As for the execution of Tullius, he kindly returns the favor on the other end. He risks creating a martyr, and probably uses the renown of the dragonborn to solidify Imperial control (JUST LIKE ULFRIC).

Skyrim destroyed the combined forces of Hammerfell and High Rock and took many miles of eastern parts of those provinces, including the cities of Elinhir and Jehenna. Some of these territories were claimed to have been lost in previous wars at the expense of Skyrim. The war resulted in a deeper division between the Redguard factions of Crowns and Forebears, as the Forebear cities showed no inclination to help the Crown cities assaulted and occupied by the Nords, which in turn was a response to the lack of help by Crowns to the Forebears during Camoran Usurper's invasion. The resistance of both the Redguards and the Bretons lasted long after the war was over. The most peculiar situation arose in the city of Dragonstar, where the city was divided into western and eastern sections of the city, walled off from each other, with each section having its own government and a desire to take control of the entire city, even resorting to acts of terrorism. The situation persisted for at least 30 years afterwards.

Tullius makes no special mention of the Dragonborn. "The rebellion is over. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead. His head will be sent to Cyrodiil where it will adorn a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Let this day be a final warning to all who would still call themselves Stormcloaks. We are turning the city over to Brunwulf Free-Winter, an honorable and faithful man. Many of you will be staying in Windhelm to aid the Jarl in restoring order and stamping out any embers of rebellion that may still smolder here. In appreciation for your exemplary service, I am doubling your pay and compensation to the widows of your fallen comrades. I am proud of all of you. All hail the Emperor. All hail his Legionnaires! I hate giving speeches."

Though Ulfric's body never leaves the palace of the kings is actually a bug. He does risk creating a martyr and he makes note of that. Though it was his duty to follow his orders, crush the rebellion and kill Ulfric. High Treason is punishable by death.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Of course Skyrim would need help. That is another reason that the Empire should accept Skyrim's independence. Skyrim doesn't have to starve. The Empire does not have to be the enemy. Talos was a Nord before he was an Imperial. And those Nords can stay in the Legion.

One man who makes a wise quote does not win an argument, and just becuase it sounds good and convincing does not make him right.

 

[DrunkenMage]

One man who makes a wise quote does not win an argument, and just becuase it sounds good and convincing does not make him right.

Ulfric makes very good and convincing quotes. Sometimes I wonder if he is just merely practicing a speech when you listen to him in the palace of the kings.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Skyrim destroyed the combined forces of Hammerfell and High Rock and took many miles of eastern parts of those provinces, including the cities of Elinhir and Jehenna. Some of these territories were claimed to have been lost in previous wars at the expense of Skyrim. The war resulted in a deeper division between the Redguard factions of Crowns and Forebears, as the Forebear cities showed no inclination to help the Crown cities assaulted and occupied by the Nords, which in turn was a response to the lack of help by Crowns to the Forebears during Camoran Usurper's invasion. The resistance of both the Redguards and the Bretons lasted long after the war was over. The most peculiar situation arose in the city of Dragonstar, where the city was divided into western and eastern sections of the city, walled off from each other, with each section having its own government and a desire to take control of the entire city, even resorting to acts of terrorism. The situation persisted for at least 30 years afterwards.

Tullius makes no special mention of the Dragonborn. "The rebellion is over. Ulfric Stormcloak is dead. His head will be sent to Cyrodiil where it will adorn a spike on the walls of the Imperial City. Let this day be a final warning to all who would still call themselves Stormcloaks. We are turning the city over to Brunwulf Free-Winter, an honorable and faithful man. Many of you will be staying in Windhelm to aid the Jarl in restoring order and stamping out any embers of rebellion that may still smolder here. In appreciation for your exemplary service, I am doubling your pay and compensation to the widows of your fallen comrades. I am proud of all of you. All hail the Emperor. All hail his Legionnaires! I hate giving speeches."

Though Ulfric's body never leaves the palace of the kings is actually a bug. He does risk creating a martyr and he makes note of that. Though it was his duty to follow his orders, crush the rebellion and kill Ulfric. High Treason is punishable by death.

I know he was bound by his country's law to do so, but a very plausible assumption is that Ulfric's death (and by definition execution) would create martys that the reputation of the dragonborn would put down. Surely Tullius is no fool, and knows how to use his resources.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Ulfric makes very good and convincing quotes. Sometimes I wonder if he is just merely practicing a speech when you listen to him in the palace of the kings.

He is well educated and well thought out. His gift with speechcraft is merely an asset used to help get what he wants. Just as those others are using theirs to convince you of their cause and motives. Speech is by definition, an unreliable source, as it must be defined by more words. It is open to all sorts of interpretations and opinions, as well as the fact that you never know exactly what someone is thinking.

 

[DrunkenMage]

I know he was bound by his country's law to do so, but a very plausible assumption is that Ulfric's death (and by definition execution) would create martys that the reputation of the dragonborn would put down. Surely Tullius is no fool, and knows how to use his resources.

I like Tullius, I like how when you meet him, he doesn't seem to understand the Nord ways and doesn't exactly like them, disregards some of their beliefs like with the Jagged Crown. At the end of the Civil war, he said something like he doesn't understand nords but he has come to respect them.

He also doesn't take political control, which is his right as Military Governor. Instead he hands it to Rikke.

"The General's put me in charge of assisting the new governments. I may understand things here in Skyrim better than the General, but I'm a soldier at heart, not a politician. But I'll do my best. This is the land of my birth, the land that shaped me. I'm proud to have any part in making it strong again."

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Hammerfell might want their territory back which the Nords took when they invaded High Rock and Hammerfell during the reign of Uriel VII in the Imperial Simulacrum. They may or may not do it, would be a perfect time to do so, Skyrim is weakened after the Civil war and up for some taking. Redguards are the most naturally talented warriors in all of Tamriel.

It isn't as easy as simple Diplomatic relations, the Stormcloaks have forced many non-nord merchants out of business who will have to close, I doubt they'd all of a sudden be all "Hey, so about the rebellion... no hard feelings." They do execute Tullius if they win, which to be honest he would of been a good bargaining chip if I was wanting independence. They seek to remove ALL Imperial influence, that would include the EEC, which brings so much needed resources into Skyrim.

"When we're done rooting out Imperial influence here at home, then we will take our war to the Aldmeri Dominion" Which I find rather interesting, on how they plan to get to the Aldmeri Dominion, unless they plan to like sail there.

Redguards can be argued the most NATURALLY TALENTED warriors, but Nord's are the best and the mightiest, as well as the sexiest.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I like Tullius, I like how when you meet him, he doesn't seem to understand the Nord ways and doesn't exactly like them, disregards some of their beliefs like with the Jagged Crown. At the end of the Civil war, he said something like he doesn't understand nords but he has come to respect them.

He also doesn't take political control, which is his right as Military Governor. Instead he hands it to Rikke.

"The General's put me in charge of assisting the new governments. I may understand things here in Skyrim better than the General, but I'm a soldier at heart, not a politician. But I'll do my best. This is the land of my birth, the land that shaped me. I'm proud to have any part in making it strong again."

In other words, he is so simple and to the point that you respect him? That is both good and bad, but for the purpose of war, I suppose it is mostly good. But a good man doesn't make a faction the right choice. Often times, it is not the leader who defines his soldiers. Tullius respects warriors, and the Nords are argueably the best. Or should I say, soldiers. The fact he must rely on others for politics and the like I find disturbing in a leader.