Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?
- Thread starter EvilCrazyCows
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FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
W
What I heard is someone willing to keep the peace and admiring genuine talent. He never said he was happy with how the Great War ended or that she was a good person. If you somehow find yourself in Cyrodiil during the Great War, then give your opinion on wether it was the right thing to do.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
What I hear is someone who actually admits that the Thalmor has control over the Empire... and if they don't get what they want... then war will start up again, and we all know how piss poor weak the Empire is.
We all know that Elenwen runs the show here, not General Tullius. If she doesn't get her way she can wave the White-Gold Concordat to the Empire.
Elenwen for High queen of Skyrim... or wait... Elenwen for Empress of the Empire.
Eidelon
ESCERNIES ESCORAE IDELION ESCAVERMES ESCERIOS
Do you read my quotes or just skim through them. You have gone so far off our original argument Im not even going to respond to most of your stuff. You repeatedly fail to see the parallels between our universe and tamreil.
J
Jeremius
Guest
I used it as an example of how Ulfric never does anything that does not benefit him. Rescinding a law does not help him with anything except garnering the respect of a hold that he is in charge of. Plus, in Ulfrics mind, THEY COULD BE DOMINION SPIES. I doubt Ulfric would help them just because it is his duty to, when it is likely that would support the Dominion. Would they not have to prove they are not dominion spies to have Ulfric think about it?
Squirrel_killer-
The blade in the dark and the hand at your throat
I assume you don't know Dunmer and Altmer are long time rivals? In fact it's the Altmers fault the Dunmer had to leave Summerset Isles to live in Morrowind, and eventually become Dunmer. Up until they left they were the SAME RACE. The Dunmer aren't exactly going to let history of being kicked out for Daedra worship go over and join a group who enforce their religion on others.
J
Jeremius
Guest
Whatever the reason, It proves that people like Ulfric don't do anything without it benefiting them. Maybe it is misplaced agression, unless the Dunmer get up and Change Ulfric's mind, the only way for things to chnge is to kill Ulfric.
Squirrel_killer-
The blade in the dark and the hand at your throat
Which has a far more certain outcome doesn't it?
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Dominion has more influence than they should. Yes, the Empire was in over their head. They took a chance to recover and fight another day. Whatever they are now, they're less because of the war Ulfric started. Also, the WGC isn't exactly the masters whip. The main point of it is Talos worship. The Dominions influence is just as bound by it as everyone else is.
Eidelon
ESCERNIES ESCORAE IDELION ESCAVERMES ESCERIOS
This is why skyrim should be ruled by the stormcloaks
1 No more thalmor
No more kidnappings
No more Tortured Talos worshippers
2 Freedom of religion
3 although racial division does occur in windhelm it happens for a good reason. Dunmer are refugees and poor. They are not entirely citizens of Windhelm so there wellbeing is the least of ulfrics concernsn also they are pretty poor, Keep in mind that the Orcs are extremely wary of outsiders so whos to blame the Windhelm nords for not wanting to let the Dunmer sleep on their couches. (this is analogy, Obviously couches are not common in skyrim)Hell they where probably mad that Ulric would even let them into the city. Also keep in mind that they can leave if they want.
4 The Argonians are poor too but nobody will let them into the city (not Ulfric, Not Free-Winter)
1 No more thalmor
No more kidnappings
No more Tortured Talos worshippers
2 Freedom of religion
3 although racial division does occur in windhelm it happens for a good reason. Dunmer are refugees and poor. They are not entirely citizens of Windhelm so there wellbeing is the least of ulfrics concernsn also they are pretty poor, Keep in mind that the Orcs are extremely wary of outsiders so whos to blame the Windhelm nords for not wanting to let the Dunmer sleep on their couches. (this is analogy, Obviously couches are not common in skyrim)Hell they where probably mad that Ulric would even let them into the city. Also keep in mind that they can leave if they want.
4 The Argonians are poor too but nobody will let them into the city (not Ulfric, Not Free-Winter)
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
1. Sure. They just have to kill every Justiciar in Skyrim, work their way through the other provinces, and finish off the Dominion in their homeland. All by themselves. Good luck with that.
2. fluff freedom of religion! These are wars. People die in wars. If you're gonna have one, make it over something good.
3. If they couldn't be bothered with the Dunmer, why make the effort to pass a law restricting them to the Grey Quarter? I fail to see how justifying racial segregation works in the Stormcloacks favor. There's a reason we don't do that anymore. I also recall a Dunmer who was on good terms with a human child, and Free-Winter is a strong supporter of them. Considering they fled a natural disaster with virtually nothing, where would they go? And how does the option to leave justify their treatment while they're there?
4. Really? Because they won't let an entire race set foot inside the city, the Stormcloacks are good? If this is how you think of the real world, I worry about you. And Free-Winter only keeps up the segregation because he fears for their lives!
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
The problem with this is that yes the Empire signed the treaty for the sole purpose to recover and fight another day... but what do you think the Dominion are doing? The same fricken thing! For as long as the Empire continues to recover and grow gives the Thalmor time to also grow in size.
Ulfric may of started the war, but the Empire created it when they surrendered to the elves. They are the main ingredient for uniting the fire.
PrisonerLizzie
Well-Known Member
The Imperials are just as racist as the Stormcloaks don't kid yourself. Even in Imperial held cities Khajiit are not even allowed to enter the city and rent a room at an inn for a night much less buy a house. Anywhere in Skyrim. Under ANY Jarl. If thats not racism then what is?
The Thalmor are the puppet masters of the Empire and seek out to destroy the Nords and their culture. They kidnap, torture and murder on whims. No trials no one to keep them in check. The only person that can stop them is Ulfric. He may not be a perfect solution but he may be the best solution Skyrim has.
As far as segregating a population to minimize a potential threat during times of war, while it is not a socially acceptable solution it is not unheard of and is actually well documented as being used even by the United States. War is war, it may not be a pleasant thought but when you don't know who your friends are you have to treat everyone like an enemy.
The Thalmor are the puppet masters of the Empire and seek out to destroy the Nords and their culture. They kidnap, torture and murder on whims. No trials no one to keep them in check. The only person that can stop them is Ulfric. He may not be a perfect solution but he may be the best solution Skyrim has.
As far as segregating a population to minimize a potential threat during times of war, while it is not a socially acceptable solution it is not unheard of and is actually well documented as being used even by the United States. War is war, it may not be a pleasant thought but when you don't know who your friends are you have to treat everyone like an enemy.
FullmetalHeart20
Well-Known Member
Treaty-a formal agreement between two or more states in reference to peace, alliance, commerce, or other international relations.
Does that sound like a surrender? The Empire went through he'll for a chance at peace, and Ulfric made more war. At least you admit that Ulfric was the instigator. And even if the Dominion is rebuilding as well, the Battle of Red Ring indicates that at full strength, the Empire would stand a good chance. They were not at full strength.
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Let me rephrase that... The Empire didn't surrender... they sold Skyrim, Hammerfell and everyone that worships Talos out to the damn elves. They sold themselves out to the elves, since Tiber Septim (Talos) was the founder of the Empire.
Ulfric doesn't want war. In fact he wants to retire and live the rest of his life living in peace. He has no other choice but to do this, since the Empire essentially made an agreement with the Thalmor to root out Talos worshipers from obvious countries that are known for Talos worshiping. The Empire granted permission to arrest, imprisoned, and to kill talos worshipers just so that Mede can keep his position as Emperor. It's known fact that ever since he did that he made a lot of enemies... which explains why someone hired the Dark Brotherhood to assassinate him. It's unknown (To my knowledge) who actually did the contract... but I'm certain that it's someone inside the Empire that wants this broken leg from a centipede removed from the courts.
KAHJIIT_ASSASSIN
New Member
well it all depends on the way you play, if you like destroying villages stormcloaks is the one for you! but if you like resolving things peacfully join the empire, i havent joined any yet but i have character at my friends house who joined the stormcloaks, i have to say there campaign is REALLY fun! my friend joined the empire, well its fun but i like doing the destructive things! but if you join the stormcloaks you burn down some of whiterun, solitude and almost every main capital!
Raijin
A Mage that loves a Templar
Listen to the words of Ulfric Stormcloak very closely.
Galmar: "Balgruuf won't give us a straight answer."
Ulfric: "He's a true Nord. He'll come around."
Galmar: "Don't be so sure of that. We've intercepted couriers from Solitude. The Empire's putting a great deal of pressure on Whiterun."
Ulfric: "And what would you have me do?"
Galmar: "If he's not with us, he's against us."
Ulfric: "He knows that. They all know that."
Galmar: "How long are you going to wait?"
Ulfric: "You think I need to send Balgruuf a stronger message."
Galmar: "If by message you mean shoving a sword through his gullet."
Ulfric: "Taking his city and leaving him in disgrace would make a more powerful statement, don't you think?"
Galmar: "So we're ready to start this war in earnest then?"
Ulfric: "Soon."
Galmar: "I still say you should take them all out like you did Deadking Torygg."
Ulfric: "Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls. Whoever we replace them with will need the support of our armies."
Galmar: "We're ready when you are."
Ulfric: "Things hinge on Whiterun. If we can take the city without bloodshed all the better. But if not..."
Galmar: "The people are behind you."
Ulfric: "Many I fear still need convincing."
Galmar: "Then let them die with their false kings."
Ulfric: "We've been soldiers a long time. We know the price of freedom. The people are still weighing things in their hearts."
Galmar: "What's left of Skyrim to wager?"
Ulfric: "They have families to think of."
Galmar: "How many of their sons and daughters follow your banner? We are their families."
Ulfric: "Well put, friend. Tell me, Galmar, why do you fight for me?"
Galmar: "I'd follow you into the depths of Oblivion, you know that."
Ulfric: "Yes, but why do you fight? If not for me, what then?"
Galmar: "I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men. Are we not one in this?"
Ulfric: "I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must."
Galmar: "Your words give voice to what we all feel, Ulfric. And that's why you will be High King. But the day words are enough, will be the day when soldiers like us are no longer needed."
Ulfric: "I would gladly retire from the world were such a day to dawn."
Galmar: "Aye. But in the meantime, we have a war to plan."
Galmar: "Balgruuf won't give us a straight answer."
Ulfric: "He's a true Nord. He'll come around."
Galmar: "Don't be so sure of that. We've intercepted couriers from Solitude. The Empire's putting a great deal of pressure on Whiterun."
Ulfric: "And what would you have me do?"
Galmar: "If he's not with us, he's against us."
Ulfric: "He knows that. They all know that."
Galmar: "How long are you going to wait?"
Ulfric: "You think I need to send Balgruuf a stronger message."
Galmar: "If by message you mean shoving a sword through his gullet."
Ulfric: "Taking his city and leaving him in disgrace would make a more powerful statement, don't you think?"
Galmar: "So we're ready to start this war in earnest then?"
Ulfric: "Soon."
Galmar: "I still say you should take them all out like you did Deadking Torygg."
Ulfric: "Torygg was merely a message to the other Jarls. Whoever we replace them with will need the support of our armies."
Galmar: "We're ready when you are."
Ulfric: "Things hinge on Whiterun. If we can take the city without bloodshed all the better. But if not..."
Galmar: "The people are behind you."
Ulfric: "Many I fear still need convincing."
Galmar: "Then let them die with their false kings."
Ulfric: "We've been soldiers a long time. We know the price of freedom. The people are still weighing things in their hearts."
Galmar: "What's left of Skyrim to wager?"
Ulfric: "They have families to think of."
Galmar: "How many of their sons and daughters follow your banner? We are their families."
Ulfric: "Well put, friend. Tell me, Galmar, why do you fight for me?"
Galmar: "I'd follow you into the depths of Oblivion, you know that."
Ulfric: "Yes, but why do you fight? If not for me, what then?"
Galmar: "I'll die before elves dictate the fates of men. Are we not one in this?"
Ulfric: "I fight for the men I've held in my arms, dying on foreign soil. I fight for their wives and children, who's names I heard whispered in their last breaths. I fight for we few who did come home, only to find our country full of strangers wearing familiar faces. I fight for my people impoverished to pay the debts of an Empire too weak to rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves! I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight... because I must."
Galmar: "Your words give voice to what we all feel, Ulfric. And that's why you will be High King. But the day words are enough, will be the day when soldiers like us are no longer needed."
Ulfric: "I would gladly retire from the world were such a day to dawn."
Galmar: "Aye. But in the meantime, we have a war to plan."
Eidelon
ESCERNIES ESCORAE IDELION ESCAVERMES ESCERIOS
1 who said anything about all thalmor im talking about gameplay no more random encounter thalmor transporting prisoners
2 People always have had wars over religion so what you denounce all people who beleive in god? or gods? what better to die for than your beleifs and your way of life
3 They have to stay in the gray quarter cause it is the designated place for Dunmer they can't afford better and i don't beleive that a single on of those elves got the houses for the price a nord would have had to pay. Also that only is true because the Dunmer is being payed to babysit a child... this is good because the boy will not be so prejudice but a nord boy is not a representitive for nord thoughts on dunmer. They arent slaves. It isnot Ulfrics problem that these dunmer are poor and homeless but what does he do? he offers than one place to live and also they can make money and have jobs on their way to economic recovery. Also they are hardly treated badly, so what some drunks yell racial slurs at them but ulfric doesn't and im sure if one of them fairly produced the income to buy a house outside the grey quarter ulfric would be more than happy to abolish the law.
4 Exactly they do the same thing.. no difference it doesnt matter so what one says he eventually do something great the only difference is Ulfric will take don the thalmor.. The empire just doesnt offer change
PrisonerLizzie
Well-Known Member
I didn't say that the Stormcloaks were in the good, I just said the Imperials weren't as pure as the driven snow as someone would have us believe. Not all of us only look at the bad deeds of one side and ignore the bad deeds of the other. We weigh them against the good and see who is truely the lesser of two evils. Black and white are only crayons not sides of life.
