Imperials or Stormcloaks, what one?

[Docta Corvina]

Let me put it this way. Remember the Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq where USA soldiers force the Iraqi prisoners to get naked, and put leashes on them, and then decided to humiliate them by taking photos? This was probably one of the worst human rights violation that the USA military committed in the 20th century. The treachery behind all of this was in fact that military police personnel of the United States Army along with an additional US governmental agencies was behind all of this.When the photos occurred it made us look bad in public. It made us look like the terrorists who invaded Iraq to abuse the POWs. I'm certain that many regular citizens joined in the ranks of Al Qaeda to seek out revenge. Lets switch this over to Skyrim. At the beginning of the story reveals nothing to your past. As you were heading for Helgan if the imperials lead you to the prison where they then interrogated you then I would have a whole different POV regarding to the legion, and to the empire, But the fact to the matter is that the captain careless shrugged it off and allowed an innocent player to be executed. It categorized the legion as an antagonist class in my eyes. I have more sympathetic to Ulfric causes to drive the imperials out of Skyrim.

While I'm wary of such a comparison, I recognize your underlying point about the actions of some reflecting on the perception of the broader group by the world at large. And again, I have never argued that what the captain did was good or in any way expedient for the Legion's aims in Skyrim. In fact, I would not at all be surprised if she was harshly disciplined after details were revealed, if she was not killed in the attack by Alduin. It's bad business, as they say, to carry on so flippantly, even in the heated chaos of war. And that's what makes it all the more realistic.

In any case, I suppose it comes down to differences in approach, once again. I personally refuse to indict the entirety of the Legion/Empire for that particular captain's egregious lapse in judgment. As we all know, there are very many Nords fighting in the Legion to preserve their homes and motherland, and see Ulfric and his followers as among the greatest threats to it. In the same vein, I've come to realize through more frequent discussion with various NPCs that not all Stormcloak soldiers/sympathizers are head-over-heels in love with Ulfric. Everyone's fighting for different reasons and because of that, again, I'm not one who will ever say that all Stormcloaks are racist, all Nords are racist, etc. Because it's not true. And because it's not black and white in this game. There are gray areas - and I believe the beginning of the game was the very first example of that. It's true, I honestly loathe Ulfric. But I can't, with any credibility, assign his faults to all that follow him.

 

[KiBa]

Talos was a General of the Colovian Estates, some may have called him a 'Warlord' or a 'Brute' The Nords didn't like him until he defeated them.

How dare you! (slap yo face) Talos of Atmora was Dragonborn! Titus Mede was just a man, and at best a steward for the future Dragonborn, rising not even to half the quality of Chancellor Ocato, though perhaps more worthy a steward than his evidently inferior descendant Titus Mede II. Reman Cyrodiil himself did not claim the title of Emperor, though he was certainly a true Dragonborn ruler. Titus Mede II... Did this man who calls himself an "emperor" protect the Dragonguard Blades? Did this pretender defend the integrity of the age-old received truth of the Nine Divines, which is really but a lesser understanding of the original Alessian Order for small minds and smaller hearts?! No! This "emperor" destroyed everything St. Alessia accomplished, he capitulated before heretical unenlightened elves and men, yet Titus Mede II dares to use the icon of the Amulet of Kings as his seal!? Does not the colossal stone Avatar of Akatosh, which now stands on the very spot where he saved Nirn from Mehrunes Dagon, in the very Temple of the Ineffable One, confirm the old Alessian Order is the true religion? Does not history demonstrate that so long as the races of Nirn misunderstand the Divinity and refuse to accept their message, there can be no peace? Misrule has hitherto characterized every age, even among the Dragonborn rulers, but only among those impious Dragonborn who shirked their duty. What more evidence do the people of Tamriel need? Golden ages rise and fade away according to the respective piety and impiety of the Emperors, reaching its zenith in the legendary piety of the Dragonborn Martin Septim, for there is no more golden a sunrise than snatching life from the jaws of certain death. Yet the citizens of every province willfully ignore this obvious truth for selfish, fleeting gain! They bicker and lie and spill blood, and for what!? What is change without order? For without order change is impossible! What is order without change? For without change distinction is meaningless, as there would only be one mode of existence without the possibility of alteration! Behold, Anu and Padomay are One Ineffable Truth! The enlightened ones and their heirs are bestowed with the Dragon's blood and spirit on account of this secret understanding, beginning with St. Alessia, and signified forever by the Temple of the One. While the common people worship only aspects of the One, the greatest Dragonborn rulers and their prophets always knew the truth, even when they could not speak it. Akatosh makes all others forget what they have learned, while Julianos gives sight to the blind and blinds those who see. This is why Tiber Septim commissioned monastic orders dedicated to Julianos to study the Elder Scrolls, for they are the points at which the essence of the One touch Mundus. Indeed, the elves contradict themselves, for the same tongues that say they are the offspring of Aedra, say it is inconceivable that Tiber Septim could have returned to Divinity! When Reman Cyrodiil lit the Dragonfires in the Temple of the One, he confirmed the truth of St. Alessia the Enlightened One and the prophet Marukh. When Tiber Septim perfectly fulfilled his destiny as the next Dragonborn Emperor (again lighting the Dragonfires in the Temple of the One), he did so according to the very order of nature defined by the sacrifice of the Divine aspects of the One, immanent in all things since the beginning. He proved what Marukh the Seer said was true: that the One is in us, and we are all in the One! Therefore, it is the duty of the Last Dragonborn to perfectly fulfill his purpose too, and the duty of every last man, mer, beast, or hist, to submit to the Last Dragonborn! For the Divinity and the Dragonborn are One, and the Dragonborn and his true citizens of his true Empire are One! Rise! Rise children of the One! All rivers lead to the ocean! Flow from the Throat of the World, but do not flow into deserts, inland valleys, or everlasting ices!

lol, I'm done.

 

[Jeremius]

ALDUIN DESTROYS LEGION AND SKYRIM GAINS INDEPENDENCE BY DEFAULT!!!!

 

[Epic Keith]

If the empire kept fighting there wouldn't be a skyrim to fight over, the high king and Jarls that opposed them would have been killed along with the emperor, blades, and yes your beloved Ulfric. Do you even notice the Empire hates the Dominion and that eventually they will rally their allies and take back Tamriel? This is impossible if Tamriel is divided by racists like Ulfric. Ulfric want's nothing more than to be high king in the long run. And as for your nords never back down thing, Ulfric surrendered without a fight when he was captured. For all his talk of Death for honour he is a true coward.

If you spoke to Ralof, he would have told you, that the Empire were going to execute Ulfric without a trial, and that was what Ulfric wanted so Skyrim would see the true face of the EMpire

 

[DrunkenMage]

If you spoke to Ralof, he would have told you, that the Empire were going to execute Ulfric without a trial, and that was what Ulfric wanted so Skyrim would see the true face of the EMpire

They had no idea about the Execution they were on their way back to Cyrodiil when they diverted to Helgan.

 

[Stereofanic]

If you spoke to Ralof, he would have told you, that the Empire were going to execute Ulfric without a trial, and that was what Ulfric wanted so Skyrim would see the true face of the EMpire

That's what he says, but Ulfric has only one goal and that's to become high king. If he does control Skyrim he controls Nords and no Nords means no army to defeat the Dominion. AKA Ulfric would be making the dominions rule over Tamriel certain for a long time.

 

[Stereofanic]

Mentality wise, the Legion would be the exact same.

I'm talking about physical strength, without any common soldiers it would be a gang not an army.

 

[Stereofanic]

i no its
pathetic, i was sooo disapointed. I thought they were whole different quest lines. I just hope to god its not the same sort of thing with the dawn guard and the vampires.

I doubt it, Tod Howard said before Skyrim's release that the DLC's would be less in number but far bigger. All this time making it they would not simply copy and paste.

 

[Epic Keith]

That's what he says, but Ulfric has only one goal and that's to become high king. If he does control Skyrim he controls Nords and no Nords means no army to defeat the Dominion. AKA Ulfric would be making the dominions rule over Tamriel certain for a long time.

And wheres your proof? Just because some milk-drinkers in Solitude say so? The Empire is full of lies and corruption. I got paid 20k by this corrupt Imperial dude who wanted the Emperor dead!

ANd I got loads of people around Skyrim who will say that Ulfric wants Skyrim because it would be best for it.

 

[Epic Keith]

That's what he says, but Ulfric has only one goal and that's to become high king. If he does control Skyrim he controls Nords and no Nords means no army to defeat the Dominion. AKA Ulfric would be making the dominions rule over Tamriel certain for a long time.

So your also trying to say the Empire can't defeat the Dominion without the Nords, Pathetic!

 

[Epic Keith]

And to all who say Ulfric is racist, I remember Tullius saying, "You Nords and your damn sense of honor, You Nords and your damn Jarls"

The Imperial General doesn't like Nords now

 

[Docta Corvina]

And to all who say Ulfric is racist, I remember Tullius saying, "You Nords and your damn sense of honor, You Nords and your damn Jarls"

The Imperial General doesn't like Nords now

Actually, if you play through the Imperial questline, by the end of it, Tullius also says that although he'll never understand or get used to Nord ways, he has come to respect them. Just sayin'.

 

[Raijin]

I found a book called Nords Arise in the game in Markarth. I recommend anyone to read as it clearly shows such hatred that the nords has against the Empire. Right after the empire signed the treaty was the day that the empire not only died but lost the respect among the nords. The empire knows just how weak they've became, and feels threaten that someone like Ulfric won't put up with their bullplops anymore. The empire even went as far as turning nords against each other by recruiting them to the legion.

I wonder what kind of bullplops the empire fed to poor Legate Rikke to convince her that Skyrim needs the empire when it's the complete opposite. The empire needs Skyrim more then Skyrim needs the empire. Skyrim being independent from the empire means that theirs one less province they have.

And wheres your proof? Just because some milk-drinkers in Solitude say so? The Empire is full of lies and corruption. I got paid 20k by this corrupt Imperial dude who wanted the Emperor dead!

ANd I got loads of people around Skyrim who will say that Ulfric wants Skyrim because it would be best for it.

I do agree with you but I need to correct you. Amaund Motierre is not an imperial descendent but a Breton according to uesp.

 

[Stereofanic]

And wheres your proof? Just because some milk-drinkers in Solitude say so? The Empire is full of lies and corruption. I got paid 20k by this corrupt Imperial dude who wanted the Emperor dead!

ANd I got loads of people around Skyrim who will say that Ulfric wants Skyrim because it would be best for it.

Countless witnesses saw him murder torygg, if he beats the empire the dominion will step in, ulfric would have served the dominion to the extent of what they need, skyrim will be fully under the Dominion's control. The empire will unite races and liberate Tamriel. Ulfric being a mega racist will only accept nords. He only lets you join because you are dragonborn. He says he is a true nord but will only sign a treaty for peace while alduin is alive if markarth is handed over. He disrespects the greybrards by threatening to leave unless elenwen leaves. He is so selfish even madanoch would do better as high king. That's all i'm sayin now end of discussion

 

[Docta Corvina]

I found a book called Nords Arise in the game in Markarth. I recommend anyone to read as it clearly shows such hatred that the nords has against the Empire. Right after the empire signed the treaty was the day that the empire not only died but lost the respect among the nords. The empire knows just how weak they've became, and feels threaten that someone like Ulfric won't put up with their bullplops anymore. The empire even went as far as turning nords against each other by recruiting them to the legion.

I wonder what kind of bullplops the empire fed to poor Legate Rikke to convince her that Skyrim needs the empire when it's the complete opposite. The empire needs Skyrim more then Skyrim needs the empire. Skyrim being independent from the empire means that theirs one less province they have.

Hmm, we must consider the source. It's a Stormcloak recruitment article. I am not the least bit surprised that it lauds Ulfric and goes on about how terrible the Empire is. If it didn't do those things, it would pretty much be a fail piece of recruitment literature, would it not? There is bias in nearly everything readable in Skyrim, including the Imperial essays - I'll not kid myself.

And as such, it does not explain/show the hatred of ALL Nords - let's be clear about that.

 

[Epic Keith]

I found a book called Nords Arise in the game in Markarth. I recommend anyone to read as it clearly shows such hatred that the nords has against the Empire. Right after the empire signed the treaty was the day that the empire not only died but lost the respect among the nords. The empire knows just how weak they've became, and feels threaten that someone like Ulfric won't put up with their bullplops anymore. The empire even went as far as turning nords against each other by recruiting them to the legion.

I wonder what kind of bullplops the empire fed to poor Legate Rikke to convince her that Skyrim needs the empire when it's the complete opposite. The empire needs Skyrim more then Skyrim needs the empire. Skyrim being independent from the empire means that theirs one less province they have.



I do agree with you but I need to correct you. Amaund Motierre is not an imperial descendent but a Breton according to uesp.

I said Imperial meaning the Legion

 

[Epic Keith]

Countless witnesses saw him murder torygg, if he beats the empire the dominion will step in, ulfric would have served the dominion to the extent of what they need, skyrim will be fully under the Dominion's control. The epire will unite races and liberate tamriel. Ulfric being a mega racist will only accept nords. He only lets you join because you are dragonborn. He says he is a true nord but will only sign a treaty for peace while alduin is alive if markarth is handed over. He disrespects the greybrards by threatening to leave unless elenwen leaves. He is so selfish even madanoch would do better ad high king. That's all i'm sayin now end of discussion

No. Actually he let's you join because you survived Helgen and escaped with Ralof or if you escaped. Even before the quest Dragon Rising he lets you join, so your reason of Ulfric letting me join is bull.

Well Tullius also signs the treaty only if Rift was given up genius.

If you spoke to the court mage of Solitude, she confirms Ulfric challenged Torygg the Nord way. Even though Torygg and Elisif give no hint whether he died of murder or challenged

NOW is the end of discussion

 

[Raijin]

Countless witnesses saw him murder torygg, if he beats the empire the dominion will step in, ulfric would have served the dominion to the extent of what they need, skyrim will be fully under the Dominion's control. The epire will unite races and liberate tamriel. Ulfric being a mega racist will only accept nords. He only lets you join because you are dragonborn. He says he is a true nord but will only sign a treaty for peace while alduin is alive if markarth is handed over. He disrespects the greybrards by threatening to leave unless elenwen leaves. He is so selfish even madanoch would do better ad high king. That's all i'm sayin now end of discussion

Wrong. I'll let Ulfric respond to your accusation of him murdering the empire's favorite puppet King

and for you to say that the Dominion would have full control over Skyrim after he defeats the empire is a joke! The Dominion ALREADY runs the show under the empire control! Why do you think their in skyrim enforcing the ban of Talos? They're capturing and killing the nords under the empires ruling. Why hasn't the empire did anything to protect these people from the brute of the thalmor? It is the empires fault for the Dominion being in skyrim, not Ulfric. It is the empire that made Talos worshiping Illegal, not Ulfric. Elenwen had no business being at the meeting. Their was NO agreement that was conducted that had anything to do with the Thalmor. The meeting was between Ulfric, General Tullius and not but least Jarl Balgruuf. Although the blades were not invited they had a reason for being there, since it was dragon related. The one who actually disrespected the greybeards was Tullius for bringing an uninvited party.

 

[Raijin]

Oh and one last thing. Ulfric didn't let you join his rebellion because your the Dragonborn... other wise he would've told Galmar to excuse you from taking the test where you had to kill an Ice wraith, and get down to straight business. If I remember correctly when you ask Galmar about the test he mentions that he gives this test out those whom he doubts and unsure of.

 

[Jersey Dagmar]

Oh and one last thing. Ulfric didn't let you join his rebellion because your the Dragonborn... other wise he would've told Galmar to excuse you from taking the test where you had to kill an Ice wraith, and get down to straight business. If I remember correctly when you ask Galmar about the test he mentions that he gives this test out those whom he doubts and unsure of.

Being Dragonborn is part of the reason he does. Considering the Legion makes you clear out a whole fort, as opposed to the Stormcloaks asking to to fight an Ice Wraith. Seriously, I laughed when Galmar asked me to do that. As if fighting an Ice Wraith is a difficult task.

Also, it's game mechanics.