Illusions Perk redesign mod

[Wraith]

So, I've been working on "fixing" Illusions, but I need some concept advice.

Let me start with the goal.
While I was using Illusion Spells and Perks I noticed a pattern. The spells dont scale with your character or the content your facing, in addition, there is never really a scaling to the spell themselves. For instance, Frenzy is not actually an upgrade from Fury, it's an AE version and sometimes I dont WANT to use an AE version. I'm much more inclined to use the "right tool for the job"

So then I started looking at the perks and I realized a disturbing pattern. Almost all the perks are designed to work around the innate limitation of the control spells because they are level limited, but at the same time, they dont ever push the spells far enough to remain useful.

So I started this mod.

So far I've managed to remove the "effective level" component from the Fury, Calm, and Fear lines of spells. To do so, one must purchase the 1/2 magic cost perks. So Simply having Novice Illusions will make Fury work on any enemy, but Calm and Fear are still only going to work on enemies under level 9 until you purchase the Apprentice Illusions perk.

In the process of streamlining this I basically nullified the following perks, as they are simply not useful once I removed the "effective level".

Animage, Kindred Mage, Hypnotic Gaze, Aspect of Terror, and Rage.

I replaced Animage with an effect that makes the Muffle spell also Fortify the Sneak skill. I called it "Muted Presence".

I moved Quiet Casting to Kindred Mage's spot in the tree and made Muted Presence a requirement.

Then I ran into some more difficult topics.

For the perk in between Quiet Casting and Master of the Mind, I wanted to create something that really exemplifies a "Sneak Mage" playstyle. My original plan was to make any effect that is affected by Quiet Casting not break Invisibility, but I dont know if this is even possible. So I throw it up to community, any other ideas for a high level invis affecting perk? Or even another perk that would better exemplify a sneak mage.

The middle tree of the Illusion perks is even worse than the right most one. I basically have to build all 3 over from scratch. My current ideas are....

Glory of Battle (required skill 20, required perk novice Illusions) Makes Courage, Rally, and Call to Arms more effective. I originally wanted to make this a % increase to the targets health, stamina, and magicka, but I found the creation kit didnt really want to play that way. So I figure I'd ask here. How would you Buff up Courage?

Bane of Logic (required skill 40, required perk Glory of Battle) Adds a stagger effect to Fury, Calm, and Fear when used against Dragons and Constructs since those creatures are usually immune to illusion effects. I dont think this effect is particularly hard to pull off, but I am wondering if it's a good idea?

Charm (required skill 60, required perk Bane of Logic) This is another of my more ambitious projects I think, I want to change Fury (single target only) so that instead of increasing aggression you actually make the target your ally for 60 seconds. I'm not sure if such an effect already exists or not, I tried to check Banish for a model, but the effect is....weirdly designed, and I'm not sure what I'm looking at. If anyone has suggestions (or a better idea than Charmed) I'm all ears.

Thanks!

 

[Epsilon]

When i first picked up the game i started a mage that i planned out to be conjuration/illusion. But i had the same issues as you are with the illusion tree, and my mage wasnt developing the way i planned for the same reason you mentioned in this post so i started a pally type character because i just didnt like the fact how the spells are designed.

Sorry i know this isnt useful at all but you pretty much posted what i was thinking as i was playing my mage. I would play another if some people could shed some light on this to change me perspective on the illusion perks

 

[Wraith]

heh, no worries, this is a bit off topic, but something I have messed with on previous characters.

I'd say the biggest problem with a Conj/illusionist is the skill purpose overlap. By this I mean that both schools are designed around the idea of Control.

Conjuration: it really has two "ideas" in it. The "important" one for our purposes is the summon/raise/banish ideas. Imagine you are alone and are facing 2 bandits. It's a 2v1 fight, the odds are not in your favor. Conjuration allows you to make it a 2v2 fight, and once one of the bandits dies, it's a 1v2 in your favor.

Illusions does the same thing, but in the inverse order. You can use Frenzy to make one bandit kill the other, changing the 2v1 to a 1v2, or you could use calm or fear to make the fight a 1v1 encounter for 30-60 seconds. Higher level Illusions will hit multiple enemies allowing even greater degrees of control, but the goal is always the same, turn the numbers to your advantage.

So I figure, the best way to mix these two magicks is to use Conjuration more for Offense and less for Control. Let Illusions be the support magick, since it has little in the way of offense compared to Conjuration. Between these two schools you can really play the "numbers game", using Illusions to take enemies out of the fight and Conjuration to increase the players on your side.

Unfortunately, this means a lot of passive pet based offense from your Raised Dead, Atronachs and followers. This may or may not be a preferable playstyle, but that's up to the players personal taste.

You'll notice I completely neglected to mention Bound Weapons. There's a reason for this, I really dont like them. The moment you summon a bound weapon, you cease to be talking about magic offense. You are now talking about Warrior offense. The damage and effectiveness of a 1h bound sword is linked not to the conjuration tree, but more to the One handed tree. A tree that would be better served with an enchanted and smithed blade than your summoned one. The end result is that a Conjuring one handed wielder would have to spend more perks to get a less effective weapon (unless you forego smithing entirely for your armor and weapons, in which case you are meleeing in robes....which is not advisable). Yes, the Bow exists, but given it's an Expert (Adept?) level spell, the "style" that your character uses will likely be defined long before you ever get to using it as intended.

It's rather funny that you mentioned the two trees that I have spent the most time messing with...All the other schools of magic are more or less a mystery to me! I have a few "Conjuration mods" floating around my head, but right now I am nowhere near skilled enough to pull them off. They are FAR more ambitious than my Illusion ideas.

 

[Epsilon]

yea you make a great point with all of that, as my goal was to have the number advantage at all times. Its funny you brought up the problem with bound weapons. Like i mentioned the illusion tree is one reason i re rolled, but it was actually the bound weapons that turned me to another class.

After about level 8 i noticed myself with a atronach at all times and battling close range with my bound weapon in close quarters combat. After about a few hours of this and hardly using illusion as i would turn to destro to escape situations. So then i thought if im using the damn sword all of the time i need to make more of a melee class.

So now i use a 1h weapon with a shield, and Restoration also for my heals along with some Alteration for buffs and very little conjuration (only for summoning an atronach for long range attacks while i swing away) just hardly any perks in it and im finding alot more success. So in a way the bound weapons made me realize i was playing with the wrong class for my style, as i was playing a mage thinking in the way of games like Rift and WoW but this game is a whole different story but i love it to death lol.