Skyrims realism, or your thoughts on it and the overpowerness.

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

I agree with this, but volkihars can be hard to find, they won't wear custom armour only their standard armour and they often go missing, well all thralls do, just disappear after fast travel with all of your valuable gear, kind of puts me off. They're fun to use though.

Thralls are much more reliable than you think, I can find two volkihars and make their bodies permanent using "anchors", then costumize the gear they already have (as long as it is gear they were wearing when they died, they will wear it). Give them an awesome weapon and some potions, and BOOM!. Check out Adam Warlock's Thrall Thread: Living With the Dead to give conjuration a new lease on life.

 

[wrighty]

Thralls are much more reliable than you think, I can find two volkihars and make their bodies permanent using "anchors", then costumize the gear they already have (as long as it is gear they were wearing when they died, they will wear it). Give them an awesome weapon and some potions, and BOOM!. Check out Adam Warlock's Thrall Thread: Living With the Dead to give conjuration a new lease on life.

What's an anchor?

 

[Mighty Pecan Pie]

If you don't want to be overpowerd, don't make yourself overpowerd! use a weaker sword. use other arrows.

you can make yourself as powerful as you want, I'm lvl 51 and still die every now and then.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

What's an anchor?

A permanent/persistent item that does not get removed from the game (like the Ebony Dragon claw) that prevents bodies that normally disappear (not the guys that respawn, just ones that disappear and don't come back) from disappearing.

 

[The Honorable Gidian Diva of Sass]

Your best bet is to read up on the ole' Thrall Thread. It explains things much better than I can.

 

[Psiberzerker]

Pray for a dlc or a mod to take care of it. Otherwise, tough cookie. Chew on it.

This. I have a mod that fixes it too, but not everyone has that option. Here's the way I see it.

When you first start the game, be a Warrior. You don't have to think, run in swinging, you have your Armor for a Safety Net. This is your Novice/Apprentice tier. In the endgame you can PWN the battlfield like no other, most players don't get past this.

Once you know where everything is, have some idea how to approach certain enemies, then a Sneak character might be better. Unless you go all Warrior+Sneak, smith up your dagger to do 500 damage without the multipliers, and craft Nightengale Ninja up to the armor cap, you will be weak in a standup fight against multiple assailants, but you can pick them off one-by-one. This can be OP in the late game, without Crafting, nor Magic, but most players can't get over what they learned as a Warrior. So, they do it anyway.

A Wizard is a completely different game. I'd rate the requisite skills about Expert on Adept. Player Skills, because there is no end-game invulnerability AND irresistible force waiting for you. You can make it free, but at no point can you do thousands of damage to everyone in the melee at once. The trade off is access to every special power in the game, in combination if you learn to use them that way.

The whole source of this argument is you hold up a Sword, a Firebolt, an Arrow, and directly compare them. The Sword has more damage, but you have to get close. The Bow has more reach, so the Firebolt is not as good. I'm building for the most OP thing I can read about on the internet, so I'm going to ignore the one that does the least damage. If that's you, don't bother with Magic. I see the same thing in D&D, a genius can play an idiot, but even someone of average intelligence can't play someone even slightly smarter than them. Intelligence becomes a dump stat to make your Spells more powerful, and you become a Warrior, with Sparckles. (I'm guessing this is the reason for the popularity of Twilight.)

I don't have enough time in this thread to tell you how to play a Wizard (I.E. a Mage with nothing but Robes, and Magic.) I've tried, and it''s very hard when I have someone looking over my shoulder where I can Show them how to do it, but I can tell you 1 thing:

It's not about power. That's a Hammer, any idiot can figure out how to use a Hammer. It's about knowing which of your vast collections of spells at you disposal is the right one at this time, and juggling them between hands fast enough. You have to manage your Magicka, just to get to the point that Enchanting is effective. Use spells with Durations, so you don't Have to spam them, and with some good robes, you should recover enough to get more spells off before you have to recast. Fighting like this, what you cast where, and in what order is critical to success, and failure.

And finally, an Altmer without Armor, or Weapons is the fasted most maneuverable playable character. the trade off is, you have to keep movinng. Fortunately, you don't have to stand there, and slug it out, or walk around with an arrownocked until it's fully drawn, or creep up behind someone before someone else sees you. If you are not using this ability, you will not survive as a Wizard. You need Patience too, because not only are you the fastest running, but the slowest to do damage. This makes for a long drawn out fight, which I like. You may call "Epic" running up, and knocking down the biggest badass in a couple swings, but to me, I think back to the Sagas of Beowulff taking on a giant stark naked, and beating him to death with his own arm. That was an epic battle, one they're still singing about. That on hitter quitter, the last in a game full of WHACK, "Next!" kills? You're going to forget about it in the next 5 minutes.

So, which is it. Do you have an Elite set of an equipment, or are you an Elite player? If you go for the former, don't play a Wizard. What they wear has little, if anything to do with it.

 

[Psiberzerker]

Here's some simple Workarounds for Destruction. Not counting Mods, which aren't availible to everyone, you can use these in the Vanilla Game:

1 Difficulty: I can't play a pure Wizard on Master without using some sort of Glitch. Even then, I keep my Level low, so that I'm not fighting the toughest enemies in the game with my primary damage dealer nerfed by leveling past it. Efficiency is the name of the game, and versatility. You want to get the most effects out of as few skills as possible. Don't need it, don't get it. Alteration, and Destruction is literally all you need if you don't level past 20, because you're only using 2 skills at 100.

Don't play a pure-mage: A Sorcerer has Armor to back up his magic, at the expense of Magicka Recovery until you can Enchant. A Spellsword has a weapon, which does enough damage with all the Spells you have at your disposal to assist it. A Battlemage is all 3, Weapons, Armor, Magic, though pretty much in that order. Just getting 2H, Destruction, and Heavy Armor up to 100 brings you to about the cusp of ineffective damage, but you can run your Magicka down to soften them up, then finish them with a few powerful swings. A Nightblade is an Assassin with some Magic. Don't even bother with Destruction, unless you want to Spellsword too, then expect all your other skills to eventually make it ineffective unless you hit multiple foes with every shot.

Magicka Management: Unless you enchant it away, and even then, you limit yourself to 2 Schools, and you have to make it that far. This is the most popular, but the added levels form Enchantment makes your spells less effective even while making them Free. However, you can get by with Splashes, get Destruction up to at least 75 so you have all the enhancers, Expert level spells, and only 8 points in Enchanting, if you can find enough souls to get you there. (I was only able to do it with Holldir's Staffs.)

Instead, the way to do it is just not run down your Magicka until you're helpless. You can't win the Damage race just pouring it on, you know this, so don't even try. Run around, take pot-shots, maneuver them into positions where you can hit all of them at once, and use the other effects to the best affect. Don't dual-cast every spell. This runs you down faster. It does a little more damage too, but once you're tapped out, you aren't doing damage for a while, so you have to run away, or find some other way to recover. At some point, you will get a feel for how long your bar is. You know you can only cast 3 Fireballs, then cast 2 (Or dual cast 1) and evade until you can do it again. Or, switch to firebolts, and rapid fire. Use Impact, but only when you NEED impact. If it's a duel with someone you don't want getting anywhere near you (For instance Mikrul Gauldurson after you've swept away his Thralls) then you might want to lock stun him, then kite until your magicka recovers. If you're fighting more than 2 of Anything, Impact will be all you can do, and run your magicka down before you finish them.

Use Durations. Cast a Flame Atronach, he's not all that powerful, but for as long as he's out there, there's less pressure on you, more Firebolts you don't have to cast, and you get a breather for your Magicka to recover. Support her with Bolts, and if you're real good, Ice Spike her so she explodes right when you want her too, and takes everyone with her. I actually use Ice Storm, and Flaming Familiar, because there's no delay, and the Slow effect makes it easier to get them all in the AoEs. Both of them stay on the field for a long time (Seconds, the moving speed of Ice Storm can actually be used as an Advantage!) The point is, any combo is going to cost less than the equivalent Dual Cast, and have multiple effects even over Impact.

The last thing is try everything on everything in different combinations. You might think that using Cold on a Frost Troll is a bad idea, but if you slow them so they can't catch you, and drain their stamina so they can't attack, then you are in no danger, and have plenty of time to let your magicka recover between casts. (Great way to train Destruction, BTW. Impact Ice Spikes, and dance around until you can do it again. They Regenerate at the same time, so you can do it all day, and it's good practice for you, the player.)

 

[Psiberzerker]

And now, the other Glitches: Warriors, and Assassins use them, so why can't we?

Spell Absorption is at once the most powerful, and least exploited thing for Mages. Without Crafting, you can protect yourself from everything except Physical damage, and recover Magicka at the same time. I'll just give you the cheapest, and esiest builds to exploit it to the point of making Destruction Viable. A Dunmer with the Atronach Stone, Impact, Flame Cloak, and Fireball can win in the melee. It might be nice to stack on some Armor, or Alteration because they will get hits in, but as far as doing enough damage is concerned without tapping out, you can do it. Health might be nice too, but you can afford a shorter gauge so it refills faster, anyway. The splash damage from your own spells absorbs often enough to counter the extra cost of Dual cast, it staggers all around, and keeps burning. The cloak/armor is mostly for if they get close enough, or Archers, which is why you Bolt them first. Probably want the Archmage's set for fastest regeneration, so Vampire's not a good plan. If you have Dragonborn, Miraak's Boots/Robes, the Atronach Perk, and Stone is 100%, and you don't have to be a Breton. (If you are, get The Lord.)

Ward Absorb it spell absorbtion on a stick, but only works on Directional Damage, and caps at 20% in the vanilla game. In Dragonborn, you can get Azidal's Gauntlets, which dial it up to 1-in-8 odds, but you can have it with regular Spell Absorbtion to likely get what comes through. What this really rocks for is a Necromage Vampire with Destruction, Absorb Health, and any enemy that throws magic at you like a Dragonpriest. The only reason this is better than 100% constant Spell Absorption is for Summoners, because that soaks up Conjured allies, which can be pretty stopmpy long after Destruction caps out. Even without Spellbreaker, you can Ward with one hand, absorb enough to keep it going, and cast Flaming Familiar with the other. You can also do this with Spellbreaker, but you have to lower your defenses to cast, which works fine with 1 enemy throwing back at you. If they have enough output, you can sthrow it back at them without lowering your defenses with Lesser Ward. Either way, switch to Impact in between onslaughts to keep them off balance. If you're quick enough, you can get the shield up in time to catch a Shout, and can't be disarmed.

This turns mini-bosses like Deathlodrs into a pattern battle. I'm sure some of you here have played Metroid, AIR? Eventually, you may be able to predict whether they're going for Unrelenting Force, a Weapon Attack, Disarm, or get out the Ebony Bow. They can shout any time, but you can either Impact Interrupt, or Absorb it depending on what you have out. Throw another Dremora Lord in there, maybe run up to Bash, or switch back to Firebolts. (If you have the Block option, highly recomended for perk efficiency) Burn them with Impunity, but remember 2 of them in rapid succsession doubles the Burning effect for less magicka, and you're in no danger. Your Tank may be taking a beating, but that's what he's for. The point is, as long as you have the right options, and control the battle for your favor, you will probably win out.

However, there is no 1 thing that will get you through every battle, you will likely have to switch mid combat, and what you switch to when will decide if you keep succeeding, or start to fail. Done right, it's Over Powered, at least as bad as Weapons, and Stealth, just not on automatic. You have to play it, well to get all the goodness out of it...

 

[Dagmar]

And yeah, the Crafting Loop is an exploit.

No it's not. Saying it is doesn't magically make it so.

You don't like the term Glitch? Fine, you're taking advantage of it, and you know it.

So what? Taking advantage of knowledge of how the game mechanics intentionally work in one aspect of the game is objectively no different than doing so based on another aspect of the game mechanics. In point of fact all player build strategies and combat strategies are based on taking advantage of knowledge of game mechanics so unless you think that every one is an exploit all you're doing is arbitrarily ascribing a new meaning to a term and falsely equating it to its actual meaning that has a negative aspect so you can associate it with taking advantage of certain aspects of the game mechanics that you personally dislike. I don't care for how overpowered crafting is in the game either but that changes nothing about the fact that using crafting skills in conjunction with one another isn't an exploit.

...100% off Destruction is the same thing, "I don't need Magicka." You actually believe that the Dev team intentionally left this in as a consolation for making the Grindstone so powerful?

I don't ascribe motives to the development team for why they designed crafting the way they did, but I also don't regard them as dumber than a bag of hammers which is what you have to do to claim that they couldn't do elementary school level math to realize that Peerless Destruction enchantments that can be found on items in the game give a 25% magicka cost reduction bonus and that they can be found on items for 4 different equipment slots, or that 100 Enchantment skill with 6 Enchantment perks with no use of any other skills can produce the same results at the Arcane Enchanter. It's simply a matter of common sense.

 

[Psiberzerker]

No it's not. Saying it is doesn't magically make it so.
So what? Taking advantage of knowledge of how the game mechanics intentionally work in one aspect of the game is objectively no different than doing so based on another aspect of the game mechanics. In point of fact all player build strategies and combat strategies are based on taking advantage of knowledge of game mechanics so unless you think that every one is an exploit all you're doing is arbitrarily ascribing a new meaning to a term and falsely equating it to its actual meaning that has a negative aspect so you can associate it with taking advantage of certain aspects of the game mechanics that you personally dislike. I don't care for how overpowered crafting is in the game either but that changes nothing about the fact that using crafting skills in conjunction with one another isn't an exploit.
I don't ascribe motives to the development team for why they designed crafting the way they did, but I also don't regard them as dumber than a bag of hammers which is what you have to do to claim that they couldn't do elementary school level math to realize that Peerless Destruction enchantments that can be found on items in the game give a 25% magicka cost reduction bonus and that they can be found on items for 4 different equipment slots, or that 100 Enchantment skill with 6 Enchantment perks with no use of any other skills can produce the same results at the Arcane Enchanter. It's simply a matter of common sense.

I only really disagree on one point (Repeated in the above.) I use terms like Exploit, and Glitch honestly with myself. I don't think they're good, or bad, I just know they're there. I use them, in different combinations from anyone else out there, because I have more fun that way then shutting down a statistic, and armoring up to as close as I can get to invulnerability. I know how to do those things, have actually collected the free destruction gear from random loot, and I'd rather us My set of exploits because I came up with them. I like to share them on the internet, because nobody else is talking about them. However, I don't represent them as a glitch free game, I admit openly that I'm exploiting a game mechanic, like retarding the entire world by keeping my level low, and investing in something like Destruction. It works, I seem to have fun with it, and if someone else wants to try it, they could too.

Or, they can use the same-old exploits I've been reading about for over a year. Oh, sorry, they're not "Exploits" let's call them Build Techniques, it's Min/maxing, all right? The point is, they don't have to hear it from me, nor you, or anyone who posts them repeatedly on every site where they talk about Skyrim. It's old news, and not that hard to get a hold of. Keep spreading the word, I'm sure there'll be a newb on tomorrow who hasn't yet, just by shere strength of numbers. Go ahead, and Google [Skyrim Glith} and see what the first few PAGES of advice comes up with. Maybe Google's using the term wrong too, I haven't looked up the definition myself lately, but I know when I'm raping the game, and how.

 

[Morgan]

I agree with Dagmar on that one. I think that getting your money back from a trainer who is a follower (like Faendal) is another one that is unfairly identified as an exploit. It seems to me that all mechanics in question are working properly, and the effect replicated is that when a follower, trainers simply don't charge you for their services. Easy peasy. This is one reason I don't like some of the unofficial patches: they fix this and other things that the patchers don't like, not things that are necessarily wrong.

 

[Psiberzerker]

Fine, don't call it a Gitch, or Exploit, I'm not going to try to tell you how to talk. Notice, I didn't once say what the Dev Team intended, I said what i could, and couldn't believe. You've convinced yourselves, but not me. And this is why:

Dragonborn. 3 Expansions in, and at the very end, they kicked us down 25% of any given element of Destruction. I'm just assuming here that they gave it a lot of thought, and came to the conclusion that it was enough. I'm also going to have some faith that they know what they are doing when they set out to balance an Elder Scrolls Game, and just might be aware of the most popular concerns about Destruction. The Warriors got Dragonbone Weapons, and the iron Dagger glitch patched, to start. Mages got become a Vampire Lord, or collect all this Heavy Armor to make your magic more powerful. Note, none of the improvements to weaponry forced them to specialize in Any type of weaponry, even 1/2 handed was covered, but not only do Wizards have to specialize, but also take a Warrior Skill to even take advantage of it. Oh, and like 5 more spells. And I've lost count of the number of weapons.

Beleive whatever you want with those data, but I know what I believe. Among other things, Fortify enchantments are an endgame suit, whether you resent it being called a glitch or not, and just to get it, you should learn how to cast Destruction without it.

 

[ShangTsung]

No 1 man can walk up to 50 armed, and trained warriors, and win through. I know, I've seen the Action Movies, and no, those are not Realistic. Regardless of how many weapons, and skills you got, magic, shouts, and the powers of all gods watching over you, nobody's that good.[/quote]
better not let Chuck Norris hear you say that..